January 4, 2024 – Open Forum

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: January 4, 2024
Topic: Open Forum
Photos by Beth Ghostraven

[12:05] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. VWER meets on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour, in the UK 8pm, 3pm EST.
[12:05] Sheila Yoshikawa: VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds. This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/. The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world. Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook please join our group there http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/
[12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: The topic for this week’s meeting will be:
Open Forum. The discussion will be in text chat. Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves.
[12:06] Jamie Jordan (jwheels.carver): I’m Jamie and I work with Selby on many virtual world projects. Most of our current focus is on https://3dwebworldz.com/
[12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: and happy 2024 everyone!
[12:07] Beth Ghostraven: I’m a retired teacher-librarian in RL and owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire and GPA Dinkies, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com). I also own the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon, in SL.
My outreach and communications activities include:
Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference http://vwbpe.org ;
Transcript editor for VWER
Unofficial liaison between education groups in SL (AKA Spam Queen)
For information on events for the educational virtual world groups that I work with, see the Beth Ghostraven’s Picks Calendar at https://tinyurl.com/Beth-Ghostraven . If you see mistakes on that calendar please let me know! Another great calendar resource is the VWEC website at https://www.vweconsortium.org/calendars/.
I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript; if you have any objection, please IM me.
[12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK, and I’m leader of VWER
[12:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m celebrating year of the dragon
[12:03] Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, when does that start?
[12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: well, the Chinese new year doesn’t start for a few weeks, but I think the Japanese celebrate more like our new year?
[12:07] Ais Aeon: Hello, sorry for being late
[12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello Ais
[12:07] Beth Ghostraven: Hi Ais!
[12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: we are just at introductions
[12:07] Beth Ghostraven: We’re off to a little of a late start anyway, no worries
[12:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: I just checked, the Japanese start the new year on Jan 1st and so for them it is year of the Dragon already
[12:08] Skipper Abel: Educator in Higher Education and available for prototyping / development assistance I can give in SL or Open Simulator for anyone
[12:09] Ais Aeon: Oh Introductions. Hi, I’m Ais. I’m from central Europe. In SL I build historical buildings, exhibits on vanishing ecosystems and extinct animals. In RL I’m a corporate trainer at a financial institution.

[12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: I got the new year items at Japanese events in SL
[12:09] Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, you were talking about the Year of the Dragon this year – here’s an interesting tidbit
[12:09] Beth Ghostraven: The Year of the Dragon is considered a lucky one, and the year is said to bring the ability to harness intelligence, leadership and creative pursuits. Ahead of the Lunar New Year, fashion brands have begun debuting pieces to celebrate the Year of the Dragon.
https://wwd.com/pop-culture/new-fashion-releases/chinese-lunar-new-year-dragon-collection-1236107027/
[12:09] Beth Ghostraven: first Google result, lol
[12:10] Beth Ghostraven: I noticed “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” and wondered if that might spur discussion of some kind?
[12:10] Stranger Nightfire: we could sure use some of that
[12:11] Sheila Yoshikawa: Before addressing that I will just mention that for those of you who like visiting Japanese shrines in SL there is a list here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gpzr58qtd2itMFZ5_XUrWxglHFCnsNLv_-1_LnqDPlk/edit#gid=0
[12:11] Wisdomseeker (lissena): 🙂
[12:12] Beth Ghostraven: that’s related, Sheila
[12:12] Beth Ghostraven: thank you!
[12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: agree @Beth 2024 as a year of “”intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” is a good topic to start with
[12:13] Ais Aeon: Hmm… not sure if you know the story behind the zodiac signs. Basically it was a race and the position on the race would define whose years come first in the calendar. The rat won 1st place. Dragon came in 5th, despite being the fastest of them all he stopped on the way to help other people. And that’s why he did not come first, but he is still considered a very good sign.
[12:13] Stranger Nightfire: amazed there are that many
[12:13] Wisdomseeker (lissena): interesting Ais
[12:13] Beth Ghostraven: yes!
[12:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: and isn’t there a thing that the rat cheated by climbing on another animal’s nose?
[12:14] Wisdomseeker (lissena): lol
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: I suppose there are ways we can address “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” individually, collectively in places like SL, but then nationally and internationally
[12:15] Ais Aeon: Well.. not exactly cheated. The ox and rat were friends, the ox got up very early in the morning (cause it’s such a diligent sign) and brought Rat along. Rat rode on the ox’s head to cross a river at the end. So when they arrived at the finish line, the emperor stated that Rat technically came first because all of the rat crossed the line before the entire ox did.
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
[12:15] Ais Aeon: So it wasn’t cheating, but Rat did make the best opportunity of him being friends with ox.
[12:15] Beth Ghostraven: aww, a technicality
[12:16] Ais Aeon: Sorry for the mythological derailment 😉
[12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: No, that’s interesting?
[12:16] Beth Ghostraven: were the rat and the emperor friends?
[12:16] Beth Ghostraven: it is interesting!
[12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: and I did the rat a disservice
[12:16] Beth Ghostraven: especially since the theme for this year’s VWBPE conference is Mythic Origins
[12:17] Sheila Yoshikawa: fast and helpful (the dragon) sounds a nice model to follow
[12:17] Beth Ghostraven: yes!
[12:17] Ais Aeon: The emperor wasn’t anyone’s friend.That was the jade emperor, aka god or (if you are Tatar like me), that was Tengri Khan the ruler of heaven. And yeah… it was a technicality, but well… Chinese heavenly realms are very administrative and legalistic. It’s not called a “celestial bureaucracy” for nothing 😉
[12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m Year of the Snake….
[12:18] Beth Ghostraven smiles
[12:18] Beth Ghostraven: I’m the Fire Monkey, apparently
[12:19] Ais Aeon: Snake came in 6th after the Dragon. Because the emperor told Dragon that because he was so helpful, Dragon’s son can be 6th. Dragon had no children, so Snake came and pretty much talked his way into being adopted by dragon.
[12:19] Sheila Yoshikawa: Clever snake lol
[12:19] Beth Ghostraven: “People having the Fire element and Monkey sign for their birth year are ambitious and adventurous but irritable.”
[12:19] Beth Ghostraven: LOL
[12:19] Ais Aeon: I just find the race myth to be interesting and funny, what can I say 😉
[12:20] Ais Aeon: Fire in general is the least desirable element for the Chinese system.
[12:20] Ais Aeon: Each time when the year is the Fire Horse year, Chinese demographics actually see a visible drop.
[12:20] Ais Aeon: Cause it’s seen as such a bad combination.
[12:20] Sheila Yoshikawa: you hide your irritation very well @Beth
[12:20] Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
[12:20] Maxine (maxinefox2008): 😛
[12:21] Sheila Yoshikawa: gosh @Ais
[12:21] Beth Ghostraven: lol that’s because you can’t see my face in RL
[12:21] Maxine (maxinefox2008): Lol
[12:21] Beth Ghostraven laughs
[12:21] Maxine (maxinefox2008) giggles

[12:21] Sheila Yoshikawa: We could pursue “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” individually, collectively as groups, nationally, internationally – just the individual effort seems easier, looking at what’s happening nationally and internationally
[12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s easy to see examples of poor leadership and get depressed
[12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” is what @Beth had identified as being year of the dragon earlier
[12:24] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think a lot of people here already pursue “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” actually!
[12:24] Ais Aeon: Leadership is so difficult, but crucial. Many people who have average or mediocre leaders or managers end up saying: “Bah, management is useless, these people never do anything”. But once you had a great manager or a very horrible one, you will never again question the importance of leadership. It is these extremes that bring it out.
[12:25] Skipper Abel: I have found it is often the case of demonstrating the potential of a project such as SL to recruit interest of managers
[12:26] Skipper Abel: Which in the end is how a had my Kitely project funded last year
[12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: so @Skipper are you thinking of leadership in demonstrating potential, or the leadership of the people you present to – or both?
[12:28] Skipper Abel: Both really, that way you can reach the broad appeal and get the discussions going
[12:28] Sheila Yoshikawa: I was also thinking about “management” and “leadership” – I think the 2 overlap but aren’t exactly the same?
[12:28] Skipper Abel: I agree Sheila
[12:29] Sheila Yoshikawa: I’ve had some “managers” who had some leadership qualities, but they weren’t good at managing people and resources on a day to day basis
[12:29] Skipper Abel: A member of staff can lead, but you need to get the buy-in from managers, especially if you require funding
[12:30] Ais Aeon: I’d say leadership is all about people. A person with great charisma and people skills, but disorganized, lazy or just not able to hold a lot of data in their head… is probably a good leader, but likely not a good manager.
[12:31] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): In your conversation about “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits,” how do you see the role of extreme experiences with managers or leaders shaping one’s perspective on the importance of leadership?
[12:31] Ais Aeon: A ‘good manager, bad leader’ is someone who can make railroad timetables work like a charm, but cannot build good relations with people.
[12:31] Sheila Yoshikawa: belatedly true @Skipper re needing buy-in
[12:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Julie my personal feeling is that very bad or good experience can influence you a lot – if you’ve suffered from a “leader” who made things nasty for their staff, it can make you cynical about leadership as a desirable quality
[12:34] Ais Aeon: @ Julie – I had the experience of going from a great leader (and good manager) to a horrible leader and poor manager. What I realized is that the good leader put the good of the company first, the good of the employees second and everything else was of much lesser importance. The bad leader put her own emotions first and did everything in her power to have things go the way she wanted, even if it was detrimental to the company and horrible for other employees. Both experiences made me value good leadership more
[12:34] Skipper Abel: Yes, I have found that once managers have seen the advantages, especially if students are also in evidence, then we are all working to a common objective,, buy-in needs to come from the top though
[12:34] Sheila Yoshikawa: or perhaps that’s just me lol and speaking as someone whose university President is pushing through a reorganisation of the entire university with basically no risk assessment with the defence being that “leaders have to make hard choices”
[12:35] Warwick Falconer: Well Skipper, there is a huge leadership challenge in what I call “leading up”…getting buy-in
[12:35] Skipper Abel: In other words managers are willing to promote the idea and as I have said find a funding stream
[12:36] Sheila Yoshikawa: presumably @Skipper you needed to find out what would motivate the managers – what they saw as desirable outcomes?
[12:37] Skipper Abel: I agree about the “leading up” Warwick, so always have something to show, rather than the idea itself.
[12:37] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): Sheila Yoshikawa talks about the challenges of leadership and the prevalence of poor leadership examples. How can individuals overcome these challenges and contribute to fostering better leadership practices?
[12:38] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): and ty @Aeon, @Sheila for the answers.
[12:39] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Julie I suppose one thing is being willing to challenge, and also to think what might motivate others to challenge and propose alternatives
[12:39] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): agree with that
[12:40] Beth Ghostraven: It seems as though subversive behavior is needed to try to overcome bad leadership – what do you think?
[12:40] Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s easy just to moan and feel that “resistance is useless”
[12:40] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes @Beth being subversive can be needed
[12:41] Beth Ghostraven: not rebellion, necessarily, just being sneaky and subtle
[12:41] Skipper Abel: I run a feedback session with my groups after a VW project, presenting the results along with achievement has always proved really convincing to teams and managers
[12:41] Sheila Yoshikawa: sounds good @Skipper
[12:41] Beth Ghostraven: Data speaks loudly nowadays
[12:42] Warwick Falconer: I really don’t agree with subversive…trust is hard to earn, and easy to lose
[12:42] Skipper Abel: Absolutely Beth
[12:42] Beth Ghostraven: I agree, probably not the best word choice
[12:43] Beth Ghostraven: Thankfully, being retired, I work for myself now, so I can’t really complain :o)
[12:44] Warwick Falconer: developing consensus and then presenting ideas to leadership is positive, but not subversive.
[12:44] Skipper Abel: Agreed
[12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: Going back to “intelligence, leadership, and creative pursuits” it sounds like you need intelligence (in several senses of the word) to manage leaders! and possibly to be creative as well
[12:46] Sheila Yoshikawa: also – as it’s open forum – any other topic or question you’d like to discuss?
[12:47] Maxine (maxinefox2008): I’m just here to observe 🙂
[12:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: I was thinking of intelligence in the sense of being – um – bright and intelligent – and also in the sense of information as intelligence (business intelligence etc.)
[12:48] Beth Ghostraven: I like that, Sheila
[12:49] Beth Ghostraven: of course, my subversive mind translates that to “spying” lol
[12:49] Wisdomseeker (lissena): 🙂
[12:49] Warwick Falconer laughs
[12:50] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): 🙂
[12:50] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): Team Collaboration and Creative Pursuits: Explore strategies for promoting collaboration within teams to enhance creativity and innovation in problem-solving and project development. Just a topic idea. 🙂
[12:50] Sheila Yoshikawa: There’s competitive intelligence that comes close to that! https://www.scip.org/
[12:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Julie thanks!
[12:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: my previous remark related to spying not collaboration
[12:52] Beth Ghostraven: Collaboration is really important – one of the 5 Cs
[12:52] Warwick Falconer: very cool Sheila…I have never seen that group…thanks
[12:52] Sheila Yoshikawa: you have to be creative to get people to (legally) pry secrets out of people, but possibly not collaborative
[12:53] Beth Ghostraven: I mean 6 Cs
[12:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: what are the other 5?
[12:53] Beth Ghostraven: Character, Citizenship, Collaboration, Communication, Creativity, and Critical Thinking
[12:53] Skipper Abel: The book Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed is a worthwhile read of what makes for creative teams if you have not already read it.
[12:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: oh, so a lot of them in the topic mentioned by Julie
[12:54] Sheila Yoshikawa: https://www.matthewsyed.co.uk/book/rebel-ideas-the-power-of-diverse-thinking/
[12:54] ღ Julie Atais ღ (julieatais): and it would be quite a constructive discussion as well.
[12:55] Wisdomseeker (lissena): yes
[12:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: we can line that up for a future VWER
[12:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: since it is nearly the hour already
[12:57] Wisdomseeker (lissena): lots of good topic ideas for a new year
[12:58] Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry, I was seeing whether I now could find out the focus of the next VWE Consortium quarterly meeting (next wednesday) but I have failed
[12:58] Sheila Yoshikawa: perhaps you know @Liss?
[12:59] Wisdomseeker (lissena): yes
[12:59] Sheila Yoshikawa: VWER on the 18th will be revisiting Hexagonal Thinking with me and Skipper Abel
[12:59] Wisdomseeker (lissena): the Models of teaching for Lifelong Learning is one topic–and I think your new program there is another Sheila?
[13:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): introducing them?
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: um, I think I would know if it was?
[13:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): hmm
[13:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): check with Elli
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: haha
[13:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I think the program is being worked on still
[13:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): 🙂
[13:01] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I fell last week and banged myself up so I have not been here much
[13:01] Maxine (maxinefox2008): 😦
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Anyway I think next week at VWER can focus around collaboration and creativity – Julie’s challenge and Beth 6Cs
[13:01] Maxine (maxinefox2008): That sucks
[13:01] Beth Ghostraven: oh no, LIss! I hope you heal soon and feel better
[13:01] Wisdomseeker (lissena): it’s amazing how quickly one can get out of the loop
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Oh @Liss good recovery!
[13:02] Wisdomseeker (lissena): thank you—my nose thanks you 🙂
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: poor nose!
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: OK
[13:02] Wisdomseeker (lissena): definitely poor nose lol
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: That’s it for this week
[13:02] Wisdomseeker (lissena): thanks for a stimulating session
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks everyone for the conversation!
[13:02] Beth Ghostraven: Thank you, Sheila!
[13:03] Skipper Abel: Thanks everyone for another lively evening chat bye for now

VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Based on a work at http://vwer.info.