2008-04-15 Justication for having land/space in Second Life

SL Education Roundtable – Montclair State CHSS Island
Tuesday, April 15th, 2008
Discussion on the justication for having land/space in Second Life

AJ Brooks: hi everyone
JeanClaude Vollmar: Hey there
AJ Brooks: come on over and grab a seat
Mystical Brotherhood: has it started?
Pryce Snook: Yes, indeed.
Mystical Brotherhood: oh
AJ Brooks: Star! 🙂
Mystical Brotherhood: and what’s the agenda?
Pryce Snook: No, mystical. I meant it is quite quiet.
Kavon Zenovka: Hello everyone
AJ Brooks: hi everyone
David Shea: hello
Stargazer Blazer: Hi AJ, everyone! 🙂
Aquiel Aero: Hi AJ
AJ Brooks: 🙂
Pryce Snook: Hello, everyone.
JeanClaude Vollmar: hello all
AJ Brooks: go ahead and grab a seat, we’ll get started
Zotarah Shepherd: Hello AJ
AJ Brooks: This is the SL Education Roundtable
JeanClaude Vollmar: Table’s filling up fast.
Zotarah Shepherd: Hello everyone.
AJ Brooks: we start off each week by introducing ourselves
Zotarah Shepherd: Yet
Stargazer Blazer: HI Zotarah
AJ Brooks: go ahead and say who you are, what school, what you do, etc… Everyone can write at once, we’ll all catch up with it in history – no need to wait for others to write
Stargazer Blazer: I’m an Instructional Designer at Miami University (which is in Ohio)
Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Front Range Community College in CO
JeanClaude Vollmar: I’m JC (Jeff Le Blanc). I’m from UNOH in Ohio and am the VP for IT there.
AJ Brooks: My name is AJ Brooks, AJ Kelton in RL. I’m the Director of Technology Services for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University
Aquiel Aero: Aquiel Aero, aka Judy Kelly at Henry Ford Community College in Dearborn MI
AJ Brooks: in NJ
David Shea: My name is David Sze … I taught at Monmouth U. in NJ for 3 years, but I’ve since moved to Canada. Right now I’m teaching online.
Pryce Snook: I am a professor of computer science at York University in Toronto (Canada).
AJ Brooks: I am also the project admin for the CHSS Island
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA student in Education in northern California and teach Life-skills and work on the teen grid also. I am planning to buy an island for my thesis project soon.
Kronos Kirkorian: I do machinima in SL and am an adjunct at New York University in NYC
AJ Brooks: is that everyone? Ok now – before we move on, as you know, this is a public meeting, so when we are done, I take the chat history and put it in a note card once I’ve done that I put them up in the building next to us the white one with red tile roof so you can come back here anytime and find them. I’m a little behind right now 🙂 but there is one up there more to follow. Apparently I’ve got a bad case of the Typo Virus tonight. so forgive me. Anyway, please share with us how you found out about tonight’s meeting, what group – if a group what list, if a list
Kavon Zenovka: SLed again
AJ Brooks: which event title if Events
Aquiel Aero: I found it in the search menu under education
Pryce Snook: I learned about it on the SLED mailing list.
Xed Nightfire: search. events, education
Zotarah Shepherd: You told me at Bridging Group AJ.
David Shea: I searched under New Jersey Ed
Stargazer Blazer: Group notice
JeanClaude Vollmar: I’m in the CIO and VW Educator groups
Stargazer Blazer: Hi Kronos Join us
AJ Brooks: excellent, Star gets two points for the whole events thing
Stargazer Blazer: COD, you too.
Stargazer Blazer giggles.
AJ Brooks: three cheers for star
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ.
AJ Brooks: 🙂 so – today’s start off topic
Zotarah Shepherd: Please sit at the table. Another chair always rezzes.
AJ Brooks: Why should an island in SL be a priority (compared to, say, BlackBoard) and how would it be useful and important for faculty/students
AJ Brooks: hi claire
AJ Brooks: anyone want to start this off?
AJ Brooks: let’s take the first part
AJ Brooks: why SHOULD an island (or land or a presence) be a priority?
Kronos Kirkorian: /I’ve been in SL for 2 years now and have never owned land so I’m not sure it needs to be a priority
David Shea: It gives some kind of a base instead of searching at random (like I do)
AJ Brooks: ok
AJ Brooks: Kronos
Zotarah Shepherd: In SL you can be more interactive for less money and bring in more resources. Also you can do distance education in SL with more connection than just a text based media.
Xed Nightfire: I know what an island is, but this first time I’ve heard about a blackboard (the contrast that you started with).
AJ Brooks: what do you do, educationally, in SL?
AJ Brooks: what types of activities, I mean
Stargazer Blazer: anything you want to do in SL is tied to prims, and prims are tied to land.
Kavon Zenovka: student engagement or development of new media literacy skills that aren’t part of BB
AJ Brooks: to clarify
Kronos Kirkorian: /was that to me?
AJ Brooks: BlackBoard is a Course Management System
AJ Brooks: it is not part of SL
AJ Brooks: or a virtual world
AJ Brooks: but it IS a tool faculty could use to teach
Pryce Snook: If you want to teach any CS topics in SL, it is impractical in sandboxes. One would need land, preferably one’s own sim.
AJ Brooks: CS?
Zotarah Shepherd: You can always build in a public sandbox and take out what you need for classes. There are places to teach classes in SL that are low cost too.
North Lamar: I use 1/4 sim for my course, couldn’t imagine using less
Pryce Snook: computer science
AJ Brooks: wow – 1/4 sim?
AJ Brooks: holy cow
Xed Nightfire: where? low cost places to teach?
Zotarah Shepherd: Do you all know that as of today the cost for islands went down?
Stargazer Blazer: True, one educator at my school was talking about collaborative builds over time, you have to be able to leave it out for asynchronous building.
Kronos Kirkorian: no didn’t know that
Pryce Snook: Open-space sims may also be practical for many people.
AJ Brooks: purchase, not monthly tier
Stargazer Blazer: Yes, it begins tomorrow. It has little impact, relatively speaking.
AJ Brooks: and it went down a LOT more for non-education than education
Zotarah Shepherd: I am getting an educational island and probably an open space sim next to it.
Aquiel Aero: What is an open space sim?
Galilla Sinatra: hello
David Shea: Does it matter whether you get an educational island or a non-ed one?
North Lamar: $$
Kronos Kirkorian: hi Galilla
Pryce Snook: It is the same size: M16 acres. But it offers only, now, one quarter the prims.
Pryce Snook: quarter.
Stargazer Blazer: We just got an island for my sl school, and we are open to having rl educators come and try things out.
Galilla Sinatra: may I join?
Pryce Snook: It is less powered than a regular sim.
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that, if you are taking it to people being enthusiasts it needs to become so to speak a regular part of the infrastructure – like a classroom or something – almost to be taken seriously but also because people might be challenged enough to learn how to teach creatively here without the administrative hassle of hunting round to find somewhere with enough prims free
Stargazer Blazer: Please do, Galilla, another seat will rez.
Sheila Yoshikawa: *[people BEYOND* enthusiasts
AJ Brooks: so – why second life at all?
AJ Brooks: why not blackboard
AJ Brooks: or web ct
AJ Brooks: or video conferencing
AJ Brooks: or a combination
Sheila Yoshikawa: I don’t really see blackboard or a VLE as the alternative
Stargazer Blazer: Because you can do things here you can’t in those applications.
Kavon Zenovka: BB is not immersive
North Lamar: I use SL to connect my students to the community
AJ Brooks: but administrators might
Sheila Yoshikawa: I rather see it as an alternative to a classroom – or rather f2f
Zotarah Shepherd: You can’t walk a lit class through a LitAlive build so they can experience the environment of a novel on blackboard.
AJ Brooks nods
Aquiel Aero: brb
North Lamar: but walking through a build isn’t immersive
AJ Brooks: so – if you had to justify this to admins at your inst. what are some of the things you might say?
Kavon Zenovka: Have students do a meeting in SL and then have them compare it to the chat tool in BB
Sheila Yoshikawa: you can put stuff in VLEs – store and organize texts and ppts – at least they are good for that – plus the discussion boards etc
Sheila Yoshikawa: so complementary really
Galilla Sinatra: Moodle is free
Kavon Zenovka: interactive learning environment
AJ Brooks: VLEs?
North Lamar: virtual learning environment
AJ Brooks nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: virtual learning environments – do you call them something else in the USA?
Zotarah Shepherd: Feel free to sit and join in our educational discussion Galilla and Lou.
Galilla Sinatra: sure
AJ Brooks: no – I just didn’t know what the acronym meant
Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
AJ Brooks: although we do have a lot of funny names for things here
AJ Brooks: 🙂
Zotarah Shepherd: I have heard them called virtual worlds – VWs.
Galilla Sinatra: have any of you tried Moodle in place of Blackboard?
Stargazer Blazer: No, we will never change our CMS (course management system)
Kavon Zenovka: Our system decides on the application – so no.
AJ Brooks: never?
JeanClaude Vollmar: We use another, and they are actively working on integrating in some form to SL
Sheila Yoshikawa: By VLEs I mean things like blackboard or webct – or moodle but we have webct
AJ Brooks: never is a long time, Star
Galilla Sinatra: oh, in case you haven’t purchased blackboard yet
Stargazer Blazer: Never
David Shea: I teach as an adjunct at a bunch of different places and most each one has a different CMS
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think there is a problem changing the VLE when you’ve got the majority of the people in the uni using it, which is the case here
Stargazer Blazer: Oh yea, SLoodle 🙂
Sheila Yoshikawa: so SL has more chance being seen as complementary and giving some quality enhancement and student satisfaction
Zotarah Shepherd: Unless there is a visual component where students can interact with what is made platforms are very limited for the curriculum I am making.
Miranda Llewellyn: the problem is also the fact that a lot of people use it just as an info repository
AJ Brooks: so – back to justifying this to the administration
AJ Brooks: how would you do it – what would you say?
Miranda Llewellyn: it can be somewhat of a ‘dead’ resource
AJ Brooks: ? dead ?
Miranda Llewellyn: limited interaction using BBoard
Stargazer Blazer: What do you mean, Miranda, are you talking about the CMS or SL?
AJ Brooks: ah – ok – got it
David Shea: I find that SL has a longer learning curve than the usual CMS … plus it demands a faster PC etc.
JeanClaude Vollmar: I think Miranda has a point. you post content the let it roll from term to term.
Sheila Yoshikawa: student reactions to it are going to be important, if there is feedback from the students that they felt more enthusiastic about their study, that they understood better
Miranda Llewellyn: BBoard
AJ Brooks: does the benefit off set the learning curve and tech demands?
Miranda Llewellyn: my internet connection is v. slow tonight
Stargazer Blazer: Oh, right, well, that’s not the fault of the CMS, and that can happen here, too.
North Lamar: I don’t think the ROi is not worth it to admins to purchase SL, maybe as a pilot or pet project but SL can’t handle the scope of a full university implementation
Kavon Zenovka: Has anyone been able to use instead of BB or in additional to BB?
AJ Brooks: SL is very slow – and not just tonight, since this forced upgrade
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes David but it is worth the effort. Once you learn SL you can do so much more.
Stargazer Blazer: I have seen people put up videos and powerpoints, what is the point of that?
David Shea: But my students have to learn SL too …
Miranda Llewellyn: we have invested a lot into investigating SL for teaching
Zotarah Shepherd: There are places where students can learn SL skills.
AJ Brooks: I am teaching a full hybrid class, 50% on campus, the other 50% in SL
North Lamar: thats what I do
AJ Brooks: Introduction to College Writing I
Pryce Snook: What have you found in your experience, Miranda?
North Lamar: although its become 75% in Sl
AJ Brooks: (read: freshman comp)
David Shea: The only interactive thing that I appreciate in a CMS is the whiteboard where I can write / draw diagrams
Miranda Llewellyn: it’s hard to convince colleagues that SL is not just a gimmick
David Shea: Or that SL isn’t just a game
AJ Brooks: how do you do that?
Pryce Snook: 🙂 I agree.
Kronos Kirkorian: sometimes the students see SL as an additional burden. Why do they have to learn all this?
Zotarah Shepherd: Why not construct 3-D learning builds in SL for your students?
Kavon Zenovka: We have gone outside of blackboard for the whiteboard and are using Elluminate Live!
Miranda Llewellyn: they see t as yet another addition to their workload which they could do without
North Lamar: SL isn’t scaleable yet, I think that is the biggest problem
AJ Brooks: well – they would do without the entire workload if they could
AJ Brooks: it’s up to us to teach them, and that includes using tools that make sense
Kronos Kirkorian: lol, that’s true enough
Kavon Zenovka: Miranda – we hear that about SL but also Microsoft Office 2007
AJ Brooks: (not just for the sake of technology use)
Miranda Llewellyn: I use a chatrooms to hold reison sessions for my students and it works pretty well
David Shea: I guess I’m speaking as an ex-business manager type … I’m not convinced that SL has the reliability etc. to be used as more than a supplement
Miranda Llewellyn: revsion eve
David Shea: I’ve used a lot of regular (text only) chatrooms and it works ok for me …
AJ Brooks: David, can you explain that?
Zotarah Shepherd: If I was presenting a course at an institution I would require SL just like a 1 unit freshman orientation course as a prerequisite to other SL courses.
David Shea: AJ – when I have a class or (more importantly) a test, the system has to be up …
Kavon Zenovka: Online chat rooms work – but have you seen if students prefer office hours in SL
David Shea: I often have trouble teleporting around – the system says that it can’t
JeanClaude Vollmar: David does have a point… Look at it, SL is still having serious DB issues and its been weeks now.
AJ Brooks nods
Stargazer Blazer: what sort of tests or assessment are you doing in SL?
Kronos Kirkorian: reliability is a problem in SL
AJ Brooks: well – this IS still very much bleeding edge
Miranda Llewellyn: also – student machines may not be up to spec
JeanClaude Vollmar: I’d just assume host my own server with a sim.
David Shea: I sometimes do exams with databases off my web site – and one time, the entire web server went out of business
Kavon Zenovka: Has anyone ever had similar problems with BB – we have. I was just hoping we weren’t the only ones.
North Lamar: Sl can be used as more than a supplement if the instructor knows how to use it. meaning…..1) can trouble shoot the technical problems, 2) is competent in building 3) understands the social systems within SL
AJ Brooks nods
Stargazer Blazer: Ok, so you aren’t doing required assessment in SL?
AJ Brooks: we are an ASP BB client
David Shea: I’ve had troubles off and on with just about every system!
Kronos Kirkorian: a lot of SL problems are Internet problems, connections, outages etc
AJ Brooks: lol
Kavon Zenovka: David – I agree we have started to talk to our students about perpetual beta and how dealing with it is a life skill.
David Shea: My 2nd PC and my laptop are not strong enough for SL, so I can get on only from one place
Stargazer Blazer: Why do we have expectations that things will work all the time?
Mystical Brotherhood: I had classes at Uni of Phoenix which is mailing list based
Miranda Llewellyn: I am going to use SL to make little videos to start with, rather than interaction
Zotarah Shepherd: I was in chat rooms years ago and really enjoyed meeting people from all over the world, but SL has a visual and interactive element that adds to learning.
Mystical Brotherhood: and we had technical troubles frequently
David Shea: I agree Zotarah that the visual element is really missing from chat
Miranda Llewellyn: and you get to wear cool clothes lol
Kronos Kirkorian: I’m considering machinima as a tool, outside of SL
Mystical Brotherhood: ive recently had a class where the instructor started using white boards with voice
Kronos Kirkorian: because of the ability to demonstrate some concepts very clearly
AJ Brooks: Lecture 123
Mystical Brotherhood: and it was exponential the improvement to the learning experience
Zotarah Shepherd: Years ago computers were not considered as a serious educational technology. Now we have to go another step.
Sheila Yoshikawa: I can see the advantages of SL as one of the learning spaces we use with students, and I think in terms of engaging students & flexibility of contact time with faculty the advantages can be seen (by management) but it needs proper technical support 9to put it on the uni computers) and time spent on induction built into the curriculum, I think
North Lamar: well said Sheila
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Sheila
Sheila Yoshikawa: here anyway if the students start wanting it that’s powerful
David Shea: If I knew how to do things in SL, I could be more effective, I think. For example now, I find it useful for the students if I draw diagrams / equations (for stat and math) on a whiteboard.
Mystical Brotherhood: that’s why I am here
Sheila Yoshikawa: but mine (so far) have some enthusiasm but are very put off by technical problems
AJ Brooks: ok – lets shift topics for a sec – focusing on the positive things about SL, why is this useful and important for faculty and/or students
David Shea: For me – it has a lot of potential
AJ Brooks: like what?
David Shea: But unfortunately right now, it’s just potential…
AJ Brooks: what kind of potential
Miranda Llewellyn: a whiteboard would be great
AJ Brooks: there are whiteboards in SL
David Shea: If I could actually give some kind of lecture – visual – that would be great
Sheila Yoshikawa: well for faculty it offers networking and continuing professional development opportunities
Zotarah Shepherd: You can import almost anything into SL David. There are also classes in how to do interactive builds for your classes.
Sheila Yoshikawa: like this, and that’s an angle I’m pushing
North Lamar: you can use the open-source marker board as a white board
Mystical Brotherhood: I could see that physics lectures could be really improved with dynamic models of interactions
North Lamar: by Cubist Scarborough
Miranda Llewellyn: SL is great for setting up scenarios – eg interviewing skills
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, developing communication skills
Mystical Brotherhood: engineering principles could be taught through practical environments
Kavon Zenovka: also teaching students how to work in virtual teams
Stargazer Blazer: why do you want to do lecturing in SL?
Pryce Snook: Web is getting better integrated with the SL platform. It is possible to put a web-page as a texture.
Pryce Snook: Things will be improving on that front.
Miranda Llewellyn: it is ideal for Human resource management, which is my main teaching area
AJ Brooks: why else
AJ Brooks: why is this good for students?
Zotarah Shepherd: SL is already used to teach a variety of classes: math, science, literature, language, Art, history.
AJ Brooks: writing! 🙂
Topher Zwiers: I always summarize the potential of SL this way… It provides a platform to DO things that can’t be done in a classroom – gives us a chance to create authentic environments in which we can observe learners exhibiting the skills we’ve only been able to estimate that they’ve had, in the past.
Miranda Llewellyn: I think that students are bored to death just sitting listening to someone with never-ending PowerPoint
Sheila Yoshikawa: I dunno about writing, my writing has become more typos-laden since I started in SL
David Shea: yes Miranda!
Topher Zwiers: Part of that though, is resisting the temptation to bring into SL means of doing assessment the way we’ve always done it.
David Shea: I’ve tried Dragon Naturally Speaking but that has even more typos than my typing … but funny typos though
Miranda Llewellyn: they are the visual generation with short attention spans – they need to be meaningfully occupied
AJ Brooks: I know about writing! 🙂
AJ Brooks: I teach it here
Zotarah Shepherd: It is part of cognitive research that students learn better with constructivist approaches, social connection and interaction with the material
Pryce Snook: We are starting a digital media undergraduate program, run jointly between fine arts and computer science. SL is a platform that brings almost all forms of digital media together in a compelling way.
Topher Zwiers: The reason we test in classrooms is to estimate how learners might perform once they leave the classroom; with SL, we have an opportunity to not estimate how they may perform, but actually observe them performing a skill.
Sheila Yoshikawa: well, in fact I think part of education is them learning that sometimes they need to READ things and have LONGER attention spans 😉
Pryce Snook: jointly…
Miranda Llewellyn: we have low lecture attendances and I am sure there is a co-relation
Mystical Brotherhood: distance learner will be give a classroom and campus environment which is absent otherwise
Stargazer Blazer: True, Topher, there aren’t many tests in rl.
Zotarah Shepherd: SL provides a platform for that better than anything I have seen except face to face, and does it for a LOT less money.
Sheila Yoshikawa: you can do authentic things in f2f in RL too, though
Mystical Brotherhood: the sociological impacts can increase the learning experience
Stargazer Blazer: I mean, multiple choice, save for Cosmo quizzes 😉
AJ Brooks: lol
Miranda Llewellyn: yeah – distance learning is a very big commercial stream for many unis
Sheila Yoshikawa: I wouldn’t do multiple choice tests in any environment, really
AJ Brooks: students love them, though
Mystical Brotherhood is a distance learner
Zotarah Shepherd: SL is a FUN place to learn if you make use of the resources here.
Stargazer Blazer: Of course they love them, AJ, they are easy.
AJ Brooks: lol
AJ Brooks nods
Kronos Kirkorian: /I have done distance learning, appearing in three classrooms simultaneously. I would much rather teach in SL than to do that
David Shea: I do multiple choice for practice quizzes so that students can get their score immediately
Topher Zwiers: Sheila – true, but SL drastically opens up the opportunities for authentic performance of skills.
Miranda Llewellyn: we do that on Bboard
North Lamar: I keep hearing assumptions that students think SL is fun, I don’t think is necessarily true
Kronos Kirkorian: true North, not all of them do
Miranda Llewellyn: yeah – it’s the reliability of SL that counts
Topher Zwiers: North, I agree.
Stargazer Blazer: Ok Multiple choice is good for low level learning, knowledge and comprehension. IT has it’s place.
Pryce Snook: The learning curve can be steep, especially if it just for a term course.
North Lamar: the first research study I did in SL last year with 18 students showed that they Hated SL
Sheila Yoshikawa: all of them, North?
David Shea: For example, we’re in a visual / SL mode here … how would that compare if we were doing this just in a chat room? Any difference?
Stargazer Blazer: Aren’t most SL users in the 30-540 age range?
Topher Zwiers: Stargazer, I think multiple choice has it’s place, but it should not be the primary means of assessment and should not be the “final exam”
Kavon Zenovka: I think most students do think any assignments are fun – I think they may rate them on how easy they are.
Miranda Llewellyn: what did they dislike?
AJ Brooks: 30-540
AJ Brooks: wow
Stargazer Blazer: Agreed, Topher 🙂
Kavon Zenovka: Learning the new tech and then the assignment being challenging
Topher Zwiers: David, I think there is a difference b/n SL and chat room, but it’s terribly hard to measure that difference….
Stargazer Blazer: I meant *50
North Lamar: technical difficulties interface difficulties, tools were too hard to learn…
Mystical Brotherhood: and/me doesn’t want to live to be 540
Kronos Kirkorian: I think a lot depends on how they see the connection between SL and the subject matter
AJ Brooks: agreed
North Lamar: absolutely
AJ Brooks: vigorously
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes, Kronos
Stargazer Blazer: I first described SL as “Chat on Steroids” hehe
North Lamar: this was also fall 2006
AJ Brooks: there must be relevance
AJ Brooks: not just a bell and whistle
David Shea: I run into a similar learning curve for my stats classes – sometimes learning the stats software takes so long that students never get to much of the actual stats
North Lamar: SL was down every other day
Topher Zwiers: I’ve seen a reference mentioned to the study of brainwave response to 3D imagery versus 2D… 3D imagery and interaction results in brainwaves more similar to live, f2f interaction… I need to track down the source.
JeanClaude Vollmar: If we could get a USB PS2 controller for this, they’d all do great with the interface.
AJ Brooks: pls do
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think if there IS relevance, then the fun can be appreciated, sort of enhancement
North Lamar: like the last week in 2008 : )
AJ Brooks: and pass it along
Stargazer Blazer: Oh, that would be good to know, Topher.
AJ Brooks: I’m very interested
Topher Zwiers: David, with that said, I would NEVER bring students into SL for the purpose of chatting….
Kronos Kirkorian: JeanClaude, you will be able to do that very soon
North Lamar: I’ll pass you all a url to the paper about it
Kronos Kirkorian: those interfaces are coming out
JeanClaude Vollmar smiles at the thought
Stargazer Blazer: The 3D mouse looks cool.
Topher Zwiers: Stargazer, I’ll have to dig – it’s in the literature around holographic imagery…
North Lamar: http://research.educatorscoop.org/
Pryce Snook: Yes, the SpaceNavigator 3DOF mouse. I am waiting on mine to arrive.
Topher Zwiers: Stargazer, the work Mitch Kapor’s group is doing re: the physical interface is also interesting…
Pryce Snook: 6DOF. Excuse me. 🙂
Kronos Kirkorian: yes, the computational overhead for that kind of interface is daunting but the possibilities are fabulous
AJ Brooks: ok
Topher Zwiers: http://your2ndplace.com/node/1085
Kronos Kirkorian: /when you bring students into SL , do you do a lot of hand holding or is it, sink or swim?
15:16] Topher Zwiers: That blog has a link out to a video about the 3D Camera interface Kapor’s group is working on.
AJ Brooks: both
North Lamar: I scaffold the experience
AJ Brooks: I require them to go through NMC’s orientation island
AJ Brooks: on their won
Kavon Zenovka: I do both – it depends on the class
AJ Brooks: for the first week or so – I coddle
AJ Brooks: after that – they’re on their own
Sheila Yoshikawa: I would say supporting their learning 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think they would say I was wasting their time if I took the sink/swim approach
North Lamar: I start mine out with condoa, their first task is to put their name on it
Kavon Zenovka: There is a session outside class time that handholds but otherwise they have to work it out.
Kronos Kirkorian: interesting variety of approaches
Sheila Yoshikawa: increasingly we are supporting their study skill development e.g. note taking, familiarizing with how to use webct function, don’t see why we should just throw them into SL, more likely to cause complaints and backlash
David Shea: If the students get more familiar with SL, then maybe the second or third course would be more effective … but I can understand if a lot of students would be frustrated with SL during their first course
Topher Zwiers: anyone familiar with Atomic Learning?
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, I’m hoping for development through our programmers
AJ Brooks: I’ve found the students are much more adaptable than the faculty
AJ Brooks: atomic learning?
Topher Zwiers: I’ve been discussing Second Life tutorials with them.
North Lamar: 1. put your name on a condo, 2. tell your life story in your condo, 3 give the class a tour of your condo, 4, take the class on a tour of a place in Sl, 5, build a flag that waves
North Lamar: the first two weeks of class
JeanClaude Vollmar: Oh, yeah. AL. Do they have tutorials AJ?
Topher Zwiers: They have a library of over 30,000 tutorial videos – 30 -180 seconds in length – describing specific tasks…
Sheila Yoshikawa: learning basics in 1st year sem 1, then ideally developing more skills as it is used in meaningful ways in different classes
Stargazer Blazer: What class is that, North?
Sheila Yoshikawa: but that requires colleagues to use it too!
Topher Zwiers: they’re very affordable when it comes to making those tutorials available to all students….
North Lamar: Working in Virtual Worlds, it use to be called Computer Supported Cooperative Work
AJ Brooks: tutorials?
Claire Nostram: students who have experienced the teen grid might be able to adjust to SL more easily in their college courses
AJ Brooks: I don’t do any in class
Topher Zwiers: we have 16k FTE learners system wide – we could make AL available to ALL learners and employees for under $25,0000
David Shea: Yup Sheila – that’s why my students get comfortable with CMSs is that they see them in every course
JeanClaude Vollmar: Atomic Learning with SL tutorials
Topher Zwiers: remove one zero 😉 $25,000
AJ Brooks: I require they go thought NMC’s orientation island
JeanClaude Vollmar: I never noticed if they did
Topher Zwiers: AL doesn’t have SL tutorials yet….
15:21] Topher Zwiers: I’ve been pitching it to them 😉
JeanClaude Vollmar: OK
North Lamar: the key for me is to get off orientation island and to my land ASAP
Stargazer Blazer: What about the tutorials that Torley Linden made? Why not use them?
JeanClaude Vollmar: Isn’t NMC addressing that issue, orientation isle that is?
Zotarah Shepherd: I mentor teachers who are new to SL. Maybe what we need is a class for students so teachers do not have to do that, but can focus on their own subject instead.
North Lamar: I use his flag tutorial
Kronos Kirkorian: some of torleys stuff can be very usefull
Topher Zwiers: I’ve also been working to organize Torley’s videos…
AJ Brooks: god bless torley
North Lamar: my students hate his voice…LOL
Topher Zwiers: provide a pathway through those for new SL users.
JeanClaude Vollmar: I love Torley
Kronos Kirkorian: yes, I give you his voice
Kronos Kirkorian: 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: one of mtystudents thought they were useful but thought the tone patronizing…
Stargazer Blazer: Nothing can be done about that.
Kavon Zenovka: I’ve been sending students to Torley linden’s tutorials
Zotarah Shepherd: Torley makes great tutorials, but sometimes you just need to ask someone how to do something. That’s where mentors come in handy.
Stargazer Blazer: They seem funny and lively.
Stargazer Blazer: Well, there ARE mentors in SL
JeanClaude Vollmar: And you can disable the orientation isle stuff to skip it.
Topher Zwiers: Torley’s videos are useful, but to my knowledge, no one’s wrapped any sort of instructional method/approach around it – scoped/sequenced them to provide a useful pathway through those to learn SL
Zotarah Shepherd: And SL classroom assistants too.
Kronos Kirkorian: this is the kind of thing that a TA or other classmate can usually handle very well
Miranda Llewellyn: Torley makes it seem fun – that’s what I like
Topher Zwiers: which Torley video to use 1st, 2nd etc…
Stargazer Blazer smiles. We will be, Topher.
AJ Brooks: as we approach the end of our hour. I want to thank everyone for coming – we meet here each week from 2:30pm to 3:30pm SLT. There is no need to leave, you are welcome to stay – I stay on for a while – but if you need to take off, feel free
Topher Zwiers: Stargazer, I’ve started that process; would like to collaborate if you and/or others are working on the same project.
David Shea: Maybe this is a symptom of the learning curve in SL … I’ve been in SL for a little over a month, I think, and this is the first time I’ve heard of Torley
AJ Brooks: you must get on the SLED list if you’re not already
AJ Brooks: a lot of email – since there are almost 5000 people on the list
AJ Brooks: but its all rich
Topher Zwiers: beware though SLED list is VERY active.
Topher Zwiers: VERY
Stargazer Blazer: Ok, Topher! Sound great!
North Lamar: sled is mostly noise
Miranda Llewellyn: it’s how I found out about tonight
AJ Brooks: oh – I disagree
Pryce Snook: Get the SLed digest. Easier to manage.
Zotarah Shepherd: Get the SLED Digest rather than individual emails
Stargazer Blazer: Or at the veryu least, read the SL Blog.
Topher Zwiers: of course… one man’s noise is another’s music…. 😉
AJ Brooks: I use Google and it threads everything for me
David Shea: I’ve looked at the SLED calendar
Topher Zwiers: Digest makes it hard to interact though – can’t just hit “reply”
Topher Zwiers: 😉
AJ Brooks nods
Pryce Snook: I have only lurked so far, so… 🙂
Topher Zwiers: I have my entire list of SL and SLED related blogs listed in the sidebar of my blog, if that’s useful.
Claire Nostram: me too
Stargazer Blazer: Me too, Pryce.
Kronos Kirkorian: a lot of lurkers
Kronos Kirkorian: 😉
AJ Brooks: well – its hard not to lurk. If you go out on a limb, someone attacks you
Stargazer Blazer: Can you imagine if Everyone participated?!
David Shea: That would be an interesting first name … “Everyone” …
AJ Brooks: some of the more active people are quite volatile
North Lamar: and they don’t clip their messages : )
Pryce Snook: Especially recently.
AJ Brooks: Nobody Fugazi
Kronos Kirkorian: what the hell do you mean by that!!!
Kronos Kirkorian: 😉
AJ Brooks: lol
JeanClaude Vollmar LOL
AJ Brooks: I love these meetings
Miranda Llewellyn: It looks like us Brits have a lot to learn from what happens in the USA
AJ Brooks: they are so informative and productive
AJ Brooks: seriously
Kronos Kirkorian: glad I stopped in
AJ Brooks: well – I think we Americans have a lot to learn from the Brits about class and etiquette
Stargazer Blazer laughs.
JeanClaude Vollmar nods
Miranda Llewellyn: hee hee
Mystical Brotherhood: and football
Pryce Snook: We Canadians can learn from you all! 🙂
Kronos Kirkorian: how about the French?
JeanClaude Vollmar: Hey, don’t even start on the French.
JeanClaude Vollmar: 🙂
AJ Brooks: I GIVE UP
Miranda Llewellyn: its about 11:30pm here lol
North Lamar: freedom fries
AJ Brooks: oh – sorry
Kronos Kirkorian: I wouldn’t dream of it
Stargazer Blazer: Hmm, academic discourse?
AJ Brooks: lol
Kronos Kirkorian: dinner time here
Stargazer Blazer: hehe
AJ Brooks: what a great group today
Topher Zwiers: dinner time here before teaching my 7:30-10pm class 😉
JeanClaude Vollmar: Yup, I gotta get outta here too.
AJ Brooks: I hope you folks will come back
Sheila Yoshikawa: bye for now, thanks for the conversation
North Lamar: thanks for Hosting AJ
Pryce Snook: Thank you, AJ. I have enjoyed it.
Topher Zwiers: AJ – absolutely… I only heard the last half and it was one of the more engaging conversations I’ve had in SL lately 😉
David Shea: I’m glad I came after forgetting the last couple of weeks
AJ Brooks: great conversation, everyone was so active
David Shea: Thanks AJ
JeanClaude Vollmar: Yes, thanks AJ.
Miranda Llewellyn: I’ve enjoyed it – will stop by again
Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry 😉
AJ Brooks: NO – Thanks all of yOU!!!!
AJ Brooks: All I did was get it started
Claire Nostram: thanks aj – good night
Kavon Zenovka: Thanks AJ
Topher Zwiers: Aj – that’s about 80% of the work though 😉
AJ Brooks: well – I don’t knwo about that – but thanks all the same
Topher Zwiers: seems to be getting dark…
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ, Ciao!
JeanClaude Vollmar: Bye, see you all next week.
Topher Zwiers: time to go in… I hear my mother calling
AJ Brooks: ciao, all
AJ Brooks: lol
Stargazer Blazer: hehe
AJ Brooks: CHRISTOPHER!!!!!!!!!
Miranda Llewellyn: cheers everyone – bye for now
David Shea: salut
Topher Zwiers: LOL
Topher Zwiers: more emphasis on the PH would just about nail the impression 😉
Topher Zwiers: bye all.
AJ Brooks: bye
Kronos Kirkorian: bye
AJ Brooks: see you in twitter
Topher Zwiers: always!
Mystical Brotherhood: awhat’s your twitter aj?
AJ Brooks: sorry_afk
Topher Zwiers: mine is cmduke
Zotarah Shepherd: See you later AJ
Miranda Llewellyn: bye everyone

The following were references that were provided to me as discussed during the roundtable.

Mayrath, M., Sanchez, J., Traphagan, T., Heikes, J. & Trivedi, A. (2007). Using Second Life in an English course: Designing class activities to address learning objectives. In C. Montgomerie & J. Seale (Eds.), Proceedings of World Conference on Educational Multimedia, Hypermedia and Telecommunications 2007 (pp. 4219-4224). Chesapeake, VA: AACE.(pdf) (html)

Sanchez, J. (2007a). A Sociotechnical Analysis of Second Life in an Undergraduate English Course. In C. Montgomerie & J. Seale (Eds.), Proceedings of World Conference on Educational Multimedia, Hypermedia and Telecommunications 2007 (pp. 4254-4258). Chesapeake, VA: AACE. (pdf) (html)

Sanchez, J. (2007b). Second Life: An Interactive Qualitative Analysis. In C. Crawford, D.A. Willis, R. Carlsen, I. Gibson, K. McFerrin, J. Price, and R. Weber R. (Eds.), Proceedings of Society for Information Technology and Teacher Education International Conference 2007 (pp. 1240-1243). Chesapeake, VA: AACE. (pdf) (html)

Originally uploaded by AJ Brooks. Downloaded from http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com/080602 by Sheila Yoshikawa, June 2018