2018-05-17 – Open Forum

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: May 17, 2018

2018-05-17 VWER - Open Forum_004

Topic: Open Forum

Come join us to talk about whatever’s on your mind about education in virtual worlds.


Camie Rembrandt: Hi everyone! Welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.  VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds. We meet for an hour every Thursday at 12 Noon SLT. This is a public meeting and we will be keeping and publishing a transcript.

Camie Rembrandt: When you blog or tweet about our meetings, please remember to include the hashtag #vwer. Please join the VWER group here in SL, and if you are on Facebook, or Google+, please join our groups there as well. Also, find and post pictures to our Flickr group, and follow us on Twitter @VWER. Since 2008, VWER has been developing a community of educators from around the world. This will be a discussion in text chat, and I’m moderating today. As usual, let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves.

Camie Rembrandt: Today is Open Forum, so feel free to present any question related to education in virtual worlds.

Beth Ghostraven: I’m Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com); Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference; Communications Chair and Focus Sessions Producer for the ISTE Virtual Environments Network; and unofficial liaison between education groups in SL.For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at http://venetwork.weebly.com/calendar.html; Twitter: @booklady9

I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript; if you have any objection, please IM me.

Camie Rembrandt: Independent eLearning Professional. EU Officially Certified Adult and Continuing Education Teacher. Postgraduate Diploma in Education (eLearning Pedagogy). Writer. Digital Storyteller. Owner of Learning Lab (Craft Grid). VWER Moderator on SL and FB.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Selby Evans, Blogger,  ACRL VIrtual World Interest Group to visit Cybalounge May 20 at noon  https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/05/2018-ww-library-acrl-virtual-world.html

Shailey Garfield: Shailey Minocha, The Open University, UK, enjoys Second Life

Camie Rembrandt: Hi Shailey, welcome

Camie Rembrandt: So, Open Forum

Camie Rembrandt: News: in 2018, the Virtual Worlds Massive Open Online Course VWMOOC2018 (formerly, SLMOOC) will take place in July. I’ve invited one of the founders/organizers, Maggie Larrimore, to join us on May 31 and talk about this year’s edition of the MOOC.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Good

Camie Rembrandt: Hello Quintus and Petrus! Happy International Museum Day 🙂

Beth Ghostraven: I’m looking forward to the MOOC; I haven’t heard anything about this year’s yet, although I’ve joined the SL group for it

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I found month long MOOC much more useful than a weekend conference – wider scope

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, I can see that. Personally I tend to not attend many of the MOOC sessions because I don’t set all of the scattered times aside, as opposed to setting aside a block of time

Camie Rembrandt: This year, the SLMOOC changed its name to VWMOOC and will take place in July.

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): why change the name of the mooc

Beth Ghostraven: Christian, it’s not limited to Second Life

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): ooo perfect

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ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Lots of educators in OpenSim

Camie Rembrandt: there are so many educational projects taking place in other platforms

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): And some in Webworlds

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): Don’t you think that having many platforms represent a further problem  for the dispersion of the users?

Camie Rembrandt: It depends on your concept of users, Petrus

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): not so much on the social media

Beth Ghostraven: Petrus, it is a challenge to bring people together to share information; SL seems to be the hub for that

Camie Rembrandt: For many teachers, it’s about their face-to-face students, not users in general

Marylou Goldrosen: Teaching kids on OpenSim is safer— need to know how to set up from scratch to share with other teachers

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): [Virtual world] Communities are forming in G+ communities

Isa de Chaeronea (Isabelle Inkpen): opensim seems to be much easier for k12 educators to use

Camie Rembrandt: I agree with Marylou

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): By the way, I would like to tell all of you that I am about to finish my PhD. the next month. and start the process of my degree. With respect to publications in journals I have 2 one that has already been published (in Spanish language) and the other one that has already been accepted is only in the revision process (in English language) I hope that having it will show them. (the two related to the VW, VR, AR three-dimensional immersive digital environments)

Camie Rembrandt: Congrats, Christian!

Camie Rembrandt: I agree with Isa – safer and, also, cheaper.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I have a 16 sim area in Kitely for $40/month USD

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): and soon we will have this “Sansar” too…

Stranger Nightfire: big problem with SL is the expense

Stranger Nightfire: though I am still pretty much wedded to SL so far

Camie Rembrandt: An entire island on Craft grid is about 7 Euro for a teacher

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): Sl is technically more advanced

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): thanks to all. The topics of the papers is the first: Limitations, challenges and opportunities for teaching in virtual worlds and the second one (if all goes well) is Categorizing the Educational Affordances of 3-Dimensional Immersive Digital Environments

Beth Ghostraven: the only virtual world teaching I do is in Minecraft, on my own server

Marylou Goldrosen: My site on OpenSIm is sponsored by UBC but teachers need an inexpensive option to set  up a simple version

Stranger Nightfire: the big advantage of SL is the great availability of resources, costumes, props, building supplies and such

Camie Rembrandt: Stranger, I enjoy SL a lot, but it’s easier for me to develop a project using Sim-on-a-Stick and an OpenSIm grid like Craft. One big problem with SL is that you cannot save an environment as OAR file. you can do that with OPenSIm – it’s very practical

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): In my opinion with regard to the use of platforms should not be a problem to interact with many or learn in several. the point seems to me is that they are given a lot of importance in the tool and not the teaching-learning process.

Marylou Goldrosen: There is always a challenging learning curve at first for even college students

Camie Rembrandt: Have you used SineSpace yet?

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): I did not

Beth Ghostraven: What kinds of sessions do you think would be helpful as part of the VWMOOC, that might help people with the different virtual worlds?

Isa de Chaeronea (Isabelle Inkpen): College students panic more than little kids, I think.

Stranger Nightfire: Sim-on-a-Stick, hmm, that is new to me

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I have visited a few times

Camie Rembrandt: Haha, so true, Isa 🙂

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, what did you think of SineSpace?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Pretty, but not many people; not much happening

Beth Ghostraven: how easy was it to navigate for you?

Camie Rembrandt: Stranger, Sim-on-a-Stick is an offline opensim virtual world. You can use it to develop an entire environment (region/island) that you later upload to an OpenSIm grid, like Craft or Kitely

Camie Rembrandt: I’m pretty sure, there is going to be a session about that during VWMOOC 😉

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): It seems to me that students nowadays have the skills to be able to change platforms and learn to use them as quickly as possible. his methods of learning are related to learning outside of school (this means that his non-formal learning methods help them to solve the process of learning the use of the platform more easily), I think in my humble opinion that the problem of Learning the platforms is in the teachers.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): In opensim, we can save our places to file an load them elsewhere

Camie Rembrandt: You’re probably right, Christian

Stranger Nightfire: that sounds cool, about the Sim-on-a-Stick. bit again I think that I would be frustrated by the lack of building aids, textures and meshes and the like

Camie Rembrandt: Well, there is a lot of content available – it’s not like it was back 2010

Marylou Goldrosen: The school & university is the problem too –never much help when you want to start or set up. I want my students to exchange with other students but classes never meet at same time.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): You can get mesh on the web and import it

Camie Rembrandt: Selby is right – I’ve done that a lot. I have a huge inventory that is mine and I can upload it to an OpenSim grid like Craft or Kitely

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): And there is a Market: https://www.kitely.com/market?wt=os

Camie Rembrandt: Unlike in SL, with OpenSim islands items are on my computer as OAR and IAR fies. They’re mine.

Stranger Nightfire: I have shopped that market and found the shelves to be pretty bare

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): it seems to me that the teachers have tried to make the students learn the use of the tools that the teachers propose when they do not observe the whole panorama that is outside the school and that the students dominate. it seems to me that as teachers we should observe the whole panorama of opportunities that all the platforms of the three-dimensional immersive digital environments provide and understand which part is more suited to our thematic content than to think that platform is better than the other. Each technological instrument has its advantages and disadvantages. Let’s stop thinking about the instrument and more about the way we teach.

Camie Rembrandt: Stranger – you might find this blog interesting http://teachingwithsoas.blogspot.com

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Right, Christian

Beth Ghostraven: Christian, that makes sense–how would you find the info to evaluate different virtual worlds for which teaching thing?

Marylou Goldrosen: Christian — Have you been following Red for Ed Movement? Teachers are underpaid with little help. Even myself, a university professor, was bounced out of the computer lab into a lecture hall at the last minute! Politics and influence rules!

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): Camie very good instrument when the local network is not good and does not support a virtual world connected to the internet. I recommend it

Beth Ghostraven: wow, Marylou!

Stranger Nightfire: thanks Carrie, I will find that interesting

Marylou Goldrosen: The ISTE standards are a start for evaluation

Camie Rembrandt: Actually, a friend of mine is using it to teach at a public university where wifi is not good enough to use virtual worlds.

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): very good question Beth is why I wrote a paper “Categorizing the Educational Affordances of 3-Dimensional Immersive Digital Environments” which is the one I hope to publish as soon as possible. It is a proposal that is part of my PhD research. It was one of my problems and I tried to give a solution.

Beth Ghostraven: I meant, is there information already out there that evaluates what different virtual worlds are best for? Christian, does your article on Affordances address that?

Camie Rembrandt: 🙂

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Last year’s evaluation may be outdated

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, very true

Marylou Goldrosen: On the other hand, we have a history, and students need to know some of that– even if outdated.

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): beth : help from a less technical and more pedagogic position to offer concepts that help to choose what the teacher really needs with respect to a specific environment for teaching practice.

Beth Ghostraven: Marylou, which history are you referring to?

Camie Rembrandt: Thank you, Beth, I was about to ask that

Beth Ghostraven: Christian, that sounds really helpful–please keep us posted about the publication please

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): In OpenSim, I would not evaluate it as a whole — I would evaluate commercial grids that have lasted –Kitely  and Digiworlds

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, yes, OpenSim as a whole is way too broad. It’s like evaluating pieces of writing together because they were written with a typewriter

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): I hope they publish it as soon as possible, so that you can give me an opinion about my proposal. beth

Camie Rembrandt: OpenSim as a technology would probably more interesting to evaluate

Marylou Goldrosen: My students do love to critique videos like Mickey Mouse Monopoly though –talk about narrow-minded influences

Camie Rembrandt: We tend to call OpenSim to a bunch of grids, when in fact an OpenSim virtual world does not even have to be online – e.g. SoaS

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): In web worlds, the 2 projects I am working with have part specifically designed for teaching

Camie Rembrandt: OpenSIm is pretty much like Moodle

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): One  of the web-worlds is being built by a former teacher

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): https://3dwebworlds.com/index.php?lang=en

Beth Ghostraven: which one, Selby?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): link above

Camie Rembrandt: Thank you for the link, Selby

Beth Ghostraven: cool! who is developing that?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): SingerGirl in SL

Marylou Goldrosen: My advice to students –Fail Again, Fail Better– Published by an education professor. Problem-solving –is a big step in learning!

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): you can go in as a guest — no registration, no password

Marylou Goldrosen: I want to thank Beth & Nonprofits [Nonprofit Commons] for rescuing me and allowing me to teach on their island when NMC went bankrupt this year!

Stranger Nightfire smiles

Camie Rembrandt: 10 minutes

Beth Ghostraven: Marylou, I don’t think I can take credit for that :o)

Marylou Goldrosen: Thanks anyway!!!

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): thanks for the link ThinkererSelby already in and it looks very interesting.

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I have a place there

Stranger Nightfire: some highly successful entrepreneur, can’t remember with one now, said that the secret of success was having many failures

Beth Ghostraven: I wonder if there’s a chart somewhere that compares different virtual worlds?

Camie Rembrandt: Petrus and Quintus – will you come back and talk about your project? Or, perhaps, take VWER on a tour?

QVINTVS PETILIVS SECVNDVS (SeverusAlexander): of course when you are interested in, we will with pleasure 🙂

Camie Rembrandt: Thank you!

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): sure

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): yvw

Isa de Chaeronea (Isabelle Inkpen): It just keeps growing. You should see it.

QVINTVS PETILIVS SECVNDVS (SeverusAlexander): 6 platforms now, lol

Camie Rembrandt: Wow

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Beth Ghostraven: VWER has a new website! Please go to http://vwer.info and tell me what you think

Camie Rembrandt: Definitely need to see it

Beth Ghostraven: I should have said that at the beginning, I forgot

Marylou Goldrosen: Great!

Camie Rembrandt: No problem, Beth – larger audience now 🙂

Isa de Chaeronea (Isabelle Inkpen): Thanks for a great meeting, Beth.

Beth Ghostraven: true, Camie!

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): I think the page is very good. but what to do with the previous domain and the previous page. beth

Petrvs Cornelivs Silvanvs (peter Woody): yes thank you

Camie Rembrandt: Thank you for coming.

Beth Ghostraven: the previous domain and page are gone, Christian; we’re working on retrieving the files and putting them up on the new site

Beth Ghostraven: Camie, thank you for moderating this meeting!

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): okay Beth

Isa de Chaeronea (Isabelle Inkpen): bye then!

Marylou Goldrosen: Great advice! Now that teaching is over –we can pay attention more!

Camie Rembrandt: Goodbye, everyone. Have a great weekend.

ecoonis – Christian Angel (ecoonis): Thanks for your effort on the page. and I congratulate you for this noble cause to better understand the virtual worlds. Thanks for the meeting today.

Beth Ghostraven: and the table behaved itself today! lol

Camie Rembrandt: yes!


VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at http://vwer.info.

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