February 14, 2019: “Open Forum”

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: February 14, 2019

Topic: “Open Forum”

Photos by Beth Ghostraven

For the Open Forum – bring along any question or topic related to Education in Virtual Worlds. This can be Second Life or any other virtual world. No topic too detailed or too wide ranging to be discussed! This week will include a discussion of One Billion Rising in Second Life https://onebillionrisingsl.wordpress.com/ “For the seventh year, on February 14, 2019, men and women in Second Life will join activists, writers, thinkers, celebrities, and people across the world to Rise, Resist and Unite as a show of unity, individual strength, and the need for change. “1 in 3 women across the planet will be beaten or raped during her lifetime. That’s ONE BILLION WOMEN AND GIRLS. Every February, we rise – in countries across the world – to show our local communities and the world what one billion looks like and shine a light on the rampant impunity and injustice that survivors most often face. “


Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. 8pm In UK, 3pm EST. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds. This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/. The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world. Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook please join our group there http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/

Sheila Yoshikawa: I am moderating today. The topic for this week’s meeting will be: Open Forum. Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual we will be in text chat for the whole session.

Beth Ghostraven: I’m Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com ); Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference (http://vwbpe.org); Communications Chair and Focus Sessions Producer for the ISTE Virtual Environments Network; and unofficial liaison between education groups in SL. For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at http://venetwork.weebly.com/calendar.html; Twitter: @booklady9 I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript and recording this session on video; if you have any objection, please IM me.

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Selby Evans, blogger
Web Writers Workshop, the writers group that meets in your browser.
3DWebWorldz: Web integration and how to use it
Kitely offers themed “grids”. Independent websites using Kitely tech but managed by an organization

Sheila Yoshikawa: So, I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK and I am lead organiser for VWER

Scot Jung: I am a professor of educational leadership in Oregon USA

amadeus Belgar: I was recently situated on a Learning Island associated with an Open Learning Service run by a local council, but I am now retired.  Still interested in SL as a learning tool.

Sheila Yoshikawa: BTW if the squirrels annoy people, just say and I will delete them

2019-02-14 VWER - Open Forum_Squirrel

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): I am an independent researcher, in Minnesota, USA, interested in virtual communities, and how they transition to new platforms

Sheila Yoshikawa: So today is an Open Forum which means that people can raise any questions or topics they want

Sheila Yoshikawa: I will just draw attention to the fact that Josain put a box on the table (the purple one) with information about some events he’s leading this Sunday. The OTHER box has the notecard for today, a free red rose (as it is Valentine’s day), and information about One Billion Rising.

Sheila Yoshikawa: I thought I would kick off today’s proceedings by drawing attention to One Billion Rising, as that event is on today in  Second Life, drawing attention to violence against women throughout the world. I have had a quick look round the sim, and there are numerous installations, a very interesting and thought-provoking place to go round. Also there is an information booth with very useful updated notecards about resources in different countries of the world

Beth Ghostraven: could you send us the LM for it, Sheila?

Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s OBR Unite (72,72,24) http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/OBR%20Unite/72/72/23

2019-02-14 VWER - Open Forum_004

NOTECARD: About the global One Billion Rising campaign – 2019
from http://www.onebillionrising.org/about/campaign/


1 in 3 women across the planet will be beaten or raped during her lifetime. That’s ONE BILLION WOMEN AND GIRLS. Every February, we rise – in hundreds of countries across the world – to show our local communities and the world what one billion looks like and shine a light on the rampant impunity and injustice that survivors most often face.

We rise through dance to express joy and community and and celebrate the fact that we have not been defeated by this violence. We rise to show we are determined to create a new kind of consciousness – one where violence will be resisted until it is unthinkable.

This year we are rising for Revolution. We invite you to join us.

One Billion Rising Revolution is an escalation of the first two stages of our campaign – One Billion Rising and One Billion Rising for Justice. We’ve danced. We’ve demanded justice. Now we are demanding CHANGES.

And only a radical shift in consciousness, and braver, bolder and more creative and determined actions can bring about CHANGE.

Change can happen if………


Change can happen if…….


We are going to continue to demand justice, and will continue to highlight the issues surrounding the social injustices inflicted on women, and to keep highlighting where these issues connect. We will continue to challenge institutions, governments, policies, laws – and make these systems, which are responsible for creating situations of poverty and violence, accountable.

Change can happen if…..


We will highlight, create and envision new, brave and radical artistic initiatives to bring in the new revolutionary world of equality, dignity and freedom for all women and girls. THERE IS NOTHING MORE POWERFUL THAN ART AS A TOOL FOR TRANSFORMATION.

Change can happen if…




An energy
a platform
A global movement
a catalyst
a worldwide decision to end violence against women
a demand for justice
a paradigm shift
an invitation
a gathering of the ready
housed everywhere
housed in our hearts





ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Maybe support and help for education in virtual worlds
Immersive Education Initiative
Most Popular Funding Opportunities Last Month

Sheila Yoshikawa: So Selby, were you publicising agencies that fund virtual world activities?

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Places that support education — might support education in virtual worlds

Sheila Yoshikawa: Ah, I see what you mean @Selby

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Great thought.

Sheila Yoshikawa: One issue in the past was that – some of these agencies were interested in funding “new things” and they didn’t see SL as new

Sheila Yoshikawa: Perhaps now if the “Virtual Reality” aspect is stressed?

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): No  need to talk about SL — Kitely offers themed “grids”. Independent websites using Kitely tech but managed by an organization

Sheila Yoshikawa: Has anyone here recently obtained support or funding for virtual worlds educational work?

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, @Selby, good point

Scot Jung: yes, Sheila, that is why i am here

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Same

Scot Jung: the project i shared last week is funded for one year by my dean

Sheila Yoshikawa: what we saw last week @Scot?

Scot Jung: at least for the virtual property

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol you answered my question before I had asked it

Scot Jung: the rockville sim and related elements. I have to write a report this may to report on progress and i may get one additional year of support

Beth Ghostraven: ISTE VEN will be touring Scot’s project next Tuesday, Feb. 19. at 5:00 pm SLT, if anyone would like to see it again

amadeus Belgar: excuse me all

Sheila Yoshikawa: I had more or less given up on trying to persuade people who weren’t already interested, but feel I ought to try again

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Also aggregator: Immersive Education Initiative
The World’s Experts in Immersion & Immersive Technology  http://immersiveeducation.org/

Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Beth @Scot Scot’s sim was certainly well worth exploring, for those of you who weren’t on the VWER trip

Scot Jung: The group gave great feedback to me, after the tour next week that Beth is leading, I will be able to work on revisions to the game and the locale

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I would not try to sell SL — too expensive and does not give you your builds

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): In OpenSim, you can get files of your sim.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby it depends what you are aiming to do, though, whether you want to explore existing builds and cultures that exist (where SL is strong) or do something from scratch (which as you say is expensive here)

Beth Ghostraven: SL is expensive, but often easy to build or buy things; OpenSim is inexpensive, but often time-consuming to build or find things to buy

Sheila Yoshikawa: agree @Beth

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Like Linux and Microsoft

Sheila Yoshikawa: good analogy, Tell Me

Sheila Yoshikawa: Josain, now you are here, could you say some more about your event?

2019-02-14 VWER - Open Forum_002
Josain Zsun (at left)

Josain Zsun: OK, Thank you.  I’ve been working on a presentation about the need to determine a Trusted Friend for all our accounts in VW & social media. A Trusted Friend is someone you entrust with your account information for the eventuality you can no longer login.  With your creativity and time in SL & social media, many things will be lost, unless someone can keep them alive.

Scot Jung: great idea

Sheila Yoshikawa: people are having to think more of their legacy of social media aren’t they?

Josain Zsun: I did a test run here Monday night.  The presentation was Voice/Text and ran ~10 minutes.  Discussion continued into the next hour.

Beth Ghostraven: it was a really interesting and thoughtful discussion, I thought

Sheila Yoshikawa: I have seen sometimes people who were friends who hadn’t kept in touch, posting “Happy Birthday” to dead friends accounts on Facebook….

Scot Jung: ouch

Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, I see that from friends who know their friend has died, just missing them; still painful

Sheila Yoshikawa: interesting @Beth

Josain Zsun: I’ve been told LL & FB have or allow  “Legacy” accounts for family to access the accounts of deceased.  But neither LL or FB have replied to my questions.

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): I’ve come across many many who have both SL Flickr and FB accounts.. but so far, i’ve not met anyone who has plans for those, if they leave SL

Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m sure it is not straightforward. It is something I have thought about and actually thought of a person, but not approached them – bit like writing a will, which one puts off doing

Scot Jung: i suppose even the persistence of the platform is in question

Josain Zsun: It has gotten where I don’t like to ask about someone I haven’t seen or heard for a while.

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Keeping a sim in SL is not cheap

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Yes.  I am here because, whether people accept it or not, SL is near the end of its life cycle, as a platform… i’m interested in where people go from here.

2019-02-14 VWER - Open Forum_Tell me your SL stories - quickgrasp Resident
Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp)

Scot Jung: what happened to work on portability across platforms? Many tell me they will stay, until the lights go out.

Josain Zsun: I started thinking about the need for a Trusted Friend while updating Cyrus Hush’s Expedition Central.  He had made everything.

Sheila Yoshikawa: though @Selby Linden Labs don’t necessarily delete a sim as soon as someone stops paying, so it could remain there for years, if it’s an island in particular

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): yes, they will shut down gradually

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Tell Me what are the signals for you that it is at the end of the life cycle?

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): We can export OARs from Opensim and convert them to web-worlds

Josain Zsun: My Isla Sonoita Ed. sim persisted almost a year after LL’s abandoning educators forced me to abandon it.

Beth Ghostraven: Tell Me, have you read Communities of Play, by Celia Pearce? https://www.amazon.com/Communities-Play-Emergent-Cultures-Multiplayer-ebook/dp/B004GGT17M/ It’s the story of the Uru diaspora–very pertinent to what you’re doing

Scot Jung: no, Beth, but looks fascinating

Sheila Yoshikawa: agree! I hadn’t see that

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Sheila, I have older avatars here, invariably even deny that SL is near an end.

Josain Zsun Saved the URL

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): They often want to argue, which i find funny

Sheila Yoshikawa: Why funny?

Beth Ghostraven: Tell Me, I would argue with that–I don’t think we really know

Beth Ghostraven: I don’t think Ebbe even knows when SL will go out

Sheila Yoshikawa: One very simple relaxing “game” I participate is – um – basically dressing up virtual dolls, it is very proper and cute. The official version was Japanese, they closed it down in 2013 and since then it has been maintained, a near duplicate by fans who were bereft about it closing

Beth Ghostraven: It is worth thinking about how to go on if/when it does, though

Sheila Yoshikawa: thought it makes me upset even to think about it

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Let me put this way — i have no skin in the game,,,, but older avatars here, invariably, deny that SL is near an end.  THAT is interesting, at the least.

Beth Ghostraven: me too, Sheila; this is home for me

Sheila Yoshikawa: you didn’t say why you thought it WAS at an end though @Tell Me

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): exactly, Beth. That’s the point

Josain Zsun: I’ve been reading “SL is dying” for ~10 years.  It looked like they were try to do that a couple of reorgs…

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I don’t deny SL is fading — I am in OpenSIm and web-worlds

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol there is a difference between dying and fading – I am doubtless fading but not yet dead

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Sure, so it is fading.  Older avatars say “fading”… younger one say “dying”.

Beth Ghostraven: what’s the point of insisting that it’s dying? i’m just curious

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): It’s fading, then.

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Point is– I have alternatives.

Josain Zsun: Admittedly, when I first signed up average logins was ~2million any time I logged in.  Currently it tends to be ~40K

Sheila Yoshikawa: for example, in the physical world, we are dying from the moment we are born, but usually that’s not the perspective we take

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, we all have alternatives about where to go, virtually, but we don’t necessarily have alternatives to keeping in touch with our SL friends. To me, that’s the crucial part

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Yes, Beth, that’s one of my interests

Josain Zsun: Now, we have to have many logins, in VW and social media to stay connected.

Beth Ghostraven: it’s actually kind of a similar theme to what Josain is talking about

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): When I first signed up, they were trying to show SL could handle concordance of 4,000

Beth Ghostraven: 4000 on one region, Selby? or in all of SL?

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): no –In all of SL — 2005

Beth Ghostraven: oh, that makes sense–SL was a lot smaller

Sheila Yoshikawa: oh, I think they said in their latest report that concurrency was about – 60,000?

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Much larger concurrency now — I usually see 40,000 -50,000

Josain Zsun: I was in a couple of load tests that were in thousands. Frame rate was baseline.  But if you could get everyone’s glitz detached and sit down it was acceptable

Sheila Yoshikawa: In educational terms, I would tend to think that there are some environments that are suitable for doing things with very large numbers, and ones which work well with smaller numbers, and both types of environment are valuable

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): But I remember when concurrency was 80,000

Tell me your SL Stories (quickgrasp): Pleasure to meet everyone!

Josain Zsun: I occassionally see OSGs doing successful load tests.

Beth Ghostraven: You too, Tell me!

Sheila Yoshikawa: also remove redundant squirrels etc. as on this part of the sim 😉

Beth Ghostraven: The Redundant Squirrels — great band name!

Josain Zsun: Anyway, I’m doing two presentations Sunday and have been invited to 2-3 later

Beth Ghostraven: that’s great, Josain!

Josain Zsun whispers: I was going to ask “Who let the rodents out:”

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol

Josain Zsun: Where did you get them Sheila?  I just acquired a couple of weasels for my parcel this week.

Beth Ghostraven: The weasels in the tree trunk, Josain? I love those

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Josain it was from Jian – a “fifty linden friday” special last friday

Josain Zsun: Same maker…mine scamper around.

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Some educational presentations (lectures) can go to many thousands — Don’t need virtual world — Make videos and put them on YouTube

Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes, I think the physical world (classrooms) aren’t suitable for large numbers either

Sheila Yoshikawa: rather more time consuming developing the materials for flipped learning, though (having been doing that for a blended learning class this week)

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I work with one project — class had 350 students — school had no way to handle that number– is being done in a web-world with no problem

Sheila Yoshikawa: my class this week has 325 students (mostly international, majority Chinese) doing Business Intelligence – we have videos, quizzes etc. for the flipped part , and then an intensive short lab, 150 at a time. Getting people to actually engage with the flipped material is the challenge, though. I’m trying to make more use of the Youtube analytics, and I’m using Google Forms to do surveys and quizzes a lot, because we are a university that has bought into all the google apps

Sheila Yoshikawa: drifting away from virtual worlds somewhat, but I feel I should be thinking of at least perhaps using a machinima or example of business in virtual worlds. That might engage students’ interest

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): They could try to develop a virtual world business, or make advertising videos in virtual worlds

Sheila Yoshikawa: that would unfortunately be a bit too complex – the focus of the class is information sources about companies, markets etc., where to get them from, and how to analyse them to get competitive or business intelligence, so it’s not so much about using marketing or business strategy. Good ideas for another class, though!

Josain Zsun: RL calls…Happy Greeting Card Day all.

2019-02-14 VWER - Open Forum_007
Beth Ghostraven

Sheila Yoshikawa: OK think it is time to wrap up then. Beth, you had a social to mention?

Beth Ghostraven: There’s a fun Steampunk Social next Thursday, Feb. 21, at 5 pm SLT. It’s a fundraiser for VWBPE, but it’s mostly for fun. I have some sources for steampunk clothing in SL if you’re interested

Sheila Yoshikawa: Next week here it is Marly and Symbolic Modeling. So I think that’s it for now. Thanks for coming along!

Beth Ghostraven: thank you, Sheila!

Lisa Tebaldi: bye, thanks


VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at http://vwer.info.


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