Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: June 6, 2023
Topic: Open Forum again
Photos by Beth Ghostraven
Abbreviations (not always capitalized) include:
- IRL / RL = [in] real life (outside of virtual worlds)
- LM or SLurl = landmark (location in Second Life)
- RP = roleplay
- RPing = roleplaying
[12:01] Beth Ghostraven: Hi everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable!
[12:01] Breila Jenvieve: Yes, Liss, my dream job.
[12:01] Beth Ghostraven: This is a public meeting in TEXT chat. We log the chat and publish a transcript of each meeting. VWER has met weekly since 2008, and you can find those transcripts at http://vwer.info, full of info and opinions on many topics regarding virtual worlds and education. General info about the VWER: We meet every Thursday from 12:00 noon – 1:00 pm SLT (SLT = Second Life Time, same as U.S. Pacific time), and we thank the University of Sheffield for allowing us to meet on their virtual island at Infolit iSchool:
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Infolit%20iSchool/230/25/21
[12:01] Beth Ghostraven: We welcome a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly-rezzed. Check out the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group in Second Life (Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable) and our group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/.
[12:01] Beth Ghostraven: Follow us on Twitter @VWER, and when you blog or tweet, please remember to include the hashtag #VWER. Today’s meeting is in TEXT chat, and we’re free to ask any questions and make any comments related to virtual worlds and education.
[12:01] Beth Ghostraven: Now… we like to begin by introducing ourselves, and if this is your first time here, please say so, so we can take good care of you. You do not have to give out your real-life name or other info if you don’t want to. Everyone can type at once!
[12:02] Beth Ghostraven: I’m a retired teacher-librarian in RL and owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire and GPA Dinkies, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com). I also own the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon, in SL.
My outreach and communications activities include:
– Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference http://vwbpe.org
– Transcript editor for VWER http://vwer.info
– Unofficial liaison between education groups in SL (AKA Spam Queen)
For information on events for the educational virtual world groups that I work with, see the Beth Ghostraven’s Picks Calendar at https://tinyurl.com/Beth-Ghostraven. If you see mistakes on that calendar please let me know!
I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript; if you have any objection, please IM me.
[12:02] Wisdomseeker (lissena): is Executive Director of the 501c3 Ageless Mind Project and its virtual arm, Whole Brain Health (located on Inspiration Island and Bay in SL) WBH is a center for Lifelong Learning in SL https://www.agelessmindproject.org/amp-in-sl/
[12:03] Breila Jenvieve: I’m Rebecca Lyman, a government researcher, writer, and GOING BACK INTO TEACHING HISTORY! Currently working on 16th century exhibits in SL.
[12:03] Jamie Jordan (jwheels.carver): I’m Jamie and I work with Selby on many virtual world projects. Most of our current focus is on https://3dwebworldz.com/
[12:03] Zsophia Innovia: I am Zsophia Innovia I sometimes teach in SL but mainly I like to learn
[12:04] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): I am Ainsley Rose, a dedicated medieval fantasy roleplayer
[12:04] Wisdomseeker (lissena): which countries in the 16th c, Breila?
[12:04] Beth Ghostraven: Breila could you tell us about your new job? (for the transcript)
[12:04] Wisdomseeker (lissena): (My mA thesis was on Spenser’s Faerie Queen)
[12:05] Beth Ghostraven: Hello PI, Liss, and Stranger! We’re doing Open Forum again today
[12:05] Stranger Nightfire: hello Beth
[12:05] PI (pi.illios): Hello! Thank you
[12:06] Breila Jenvieve: Sure! I left secondary English and history teaching three years ago after a stroke (and then Covid) and accidentally found a great job working for the city. But I laid out requirments for a perfect job… good district, middle school, social studies only, one prep, etc. And I just got it! Teaching 8th grade U.S. History this fall.
[12:06] Beth Ghostraven: [12:00] Breila Jenvieve: So…. I got a new job!
[12:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): congratulations!
[12:00] Wisdomseeker (lissena): the one you wanted?
[12:00] Breila Jenvieve: This year I’ll be teaching 8th grade history.
[12:00] Zsophia Innovia: lol you both look great in your bows. Terrific Breila! I am hunting again
[12:09] Beth Ghostraven: lots of Seniors can actually vote, so it would be pertinent
[12:09] Wisdomseeker (lissena): through those courses?
[12:09] Beth Ghostraven: Liss, yes, but lots of good chances to get fired too
[12:09] Breila Jenvieve: Oh, always doing critical thinking and smacking upside proverbial heads as much as possible.
[12:09] Wisdomseeker (lissena): really? Maybe it depends on the state?
[12:10] Beth Ghostraven: (not that you need to worry about that, Breila)
[12:10] Breila Jenvieve: Nah, I’m not too radical. And they’re 13, so you know…
[12:10] Zsophia Innovia: some people only agree with critical thinking when they agree with it
[12:10] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia, yes – the opposite of critical thinking! lol
[12:10] Breila Jenvieve: Well, then it’s just a matter of WHY you agree, and boom, higher order thinking.
[12:11] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I was thinking of critical thinking as looking at all sides of an issue to discern what is more factual?
[12:11] Breila Jenvieve: Exactly, Liss. Moving from what to why.
[12:11] Wisdomseeker (lissena): an important step
[12:11] Beth Ghostraven: Breila exactly – asking good questions
[12:11] Wisdomseeker (lissena): for everyone, no matter what your age
[12:12] Beth Ghostraven: How do you all think virtual worlds could be used to teach critical thinking?
[12:12] Breila Jenvieve: Yes, we do a thing called spiral questioning to get to those meat and potato things.
[12:12] Beth Ghostraven: (unless someone else has a topic??)
[12:12] Wisdomseeker (lissena): what is spiral questioning?
[12:13] Zsophia Innovia: I think that by stripping away the physical appearance and mixing we allow the true person to come forward for better and worse
[12:13] Breila Jenvieve: Asking increasingly complex and leading questions.
[12:13] Wisdomseeker (lissena): and I like your question, Beth!
[12:13] Breila Jenvieve: Ooh, I like that Zsophia
[12:14] Beth Ghostraven: :o)
[12:14] Wisdomseeker (lissena): so you would say critical thinking starts with being an avatar, Zsopia?
[12:14] Wisdomseeker (lissena): Zsophia
[12:14] Zsophia Innovia: it starts with the mind within. The true person within
[12:15] Beth Ghostraven: I’ve found that text communication tends to facilitate that, even outside of virtual worlds
[12:15] Breila Jenvieve: VW is really about the immersive experience, so for higher order thinking skills (HOTS), I think we’re looking at making connections within the world around us.
[12:16] Breila Jenvieve: And VW can design that world to facilitate learning that way.
[12:16] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia and Ainsley, I noticed that you seem to be dressed for role-playing. Do you think that has applications?
[12:16] PI (pi.illios): Patch Linden’s opening speech is related to this
[12:16] Wisdomseeker (lissena): sounds very interesting
[12:16] Breila Jenvieve: (I love being an education nerd again, not gonna lie!!)
[12:16] Wisdomseeker (lissena): when was that, pi?
[12:16] Breila Jenvieve: What did he say, Pi?
[12:17] Stranger Nightfire: shoot, I went and missed that
[12:17] PI (pi.illios): Right now. He just finished
[12:17] Wisdomseeker (lissena): curious about uses of role-playing too
[12:17] Stranger Nightfire: I suppose it will be archived
[12:17] Breila Jenvieve: I hope it’s on YouTube
[12:17] Wisdomseeker (lissena): what was the connection ,Pi?
[12:17] Beth Ghostraven: this is the livestream for the SL20B opening speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76jehGh6zo
[12:17] PI (pi.illios): Yes I heard it now in YouTube
[12:18] Breila Jenvieve: Thanks Beth!
[12:18] Wisdomseeker (lissena): curious about Pi’s take on it 🙂
[12:18] Beth Ghostraven: me too, PI, tell us more please?
[12:18] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): Roleplay could be considered a teaching technique and could enhance critical thinking. Sorry am slow
[12:19] Beth Ghostraven: that’s ok, Ainsley, we’re patient :o)
[12:19] Zsophia Innovia: I think it does for me. It allows me to step out of what rl has to do more and different things. In the rp I can heal people in a way I cannot irl and I am able to step into roles I can’t irl also I don’t have to pay rent to keep a roof over my head which can be freeing
[12:19] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): Smiles
[12:19] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I think Sheila made the point about role playing when we visited Pi”s build?
[12:19] PI (pi.illios): He talked about the way this immersive experience is a marvel
[12:19] Wisdomseeker (lissena): it is!
[12:20] Zsophia Innovia: I mean I am researching different first aid that can be used in medieval situations where we don’t have cell phones to call 911
[12:20] Wisdomseeker (lissena): :))
[12:20] Breila Jenvieve: I love RPing here… not just for the immersion, but the chance to empathize with another person.
[12:20] Wisdomseeker (lissena): hi Marly
[12:21] Wisdomseeker (lissena): do you think empathy is a crucial part of critical thinking?
[12:21] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia, there’s a lot of that in the Outlander series (researched by the author)
[12:21] Beth Ghostraven: Hi Marly!
[12:21] Wisdomseeker (lissena): although I just started a book called Against Empathy
[12:21] Beth Ghostraven: We’re doing Open Forum, talking about how to facilitate critical thinking with virtual worlds
[12:22] Beth Ghostraven: really, Liss?! that seems improbable
[12:22] PI (pi.illios): Which sim do you role play
[12:22] Wisdomseeker (lissena): that’s why I am curious about it
[12:22] Zsophia Innovia: oh I have heard of Against Empathy through Alan Alda’s podcast. It sounded interesting
[12:22] Wisdomseeker (lissena): good question Pi!
[12:22] Wisdomseeker (lissena): which sims?
[12:22] Marly (marly.milena): Paying attention to emotions as valuable data is important for critical thinking
[12:22] Breila Jenvieve: Me or Zsophia? 🙂
[12:23] Wisdomseeker (lissena): anyone
[12:23] PI (pi.illios): Both
[12:23] Zsophia Innovia: I am in Astrium I’ll send you a LM in pm
[12:23] Wisdomseeker (lissena): yes we all thought that, Marly, but I was curious about a different point of view
[12:23] Breila Jenvieve: I play at a Game of Thrones RP called Casterly Rock. I don’t know diddly squat taco about GoT, but the people and the sim are fabulous.
[12:23] PI (pi.illios): thank you
[12:23] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia, could you share it with all of us please?
[12:23] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): I am in Astrium too. I am a druid healer like Zsophia.
[12:23] Wisdomseeker (lissena): a medieval sim?
[12:24] Beth Ghostraven: Breila, could you share yours too? The tour we went on was wonderful
[12:24] Wisdomseeker (lissena): so many places in SL I don’t know about
[12:24] PI (pi.illios): I am very curious but maybe I can have a language gap
[12:24] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): Breila, might I have that lm?
[12:24] Zsophia Innovia: of course
[12:24] Breila Jenvieve: Mine is Medieval fantasy, but people there are interested in the history. I play a beekeeper.
[12:24] Wisdomseeker (lissena): please share with us all, everyone?
[12:24] Second Life: Zsophia Innovia gave you Astrium – Medieval Fantasy RP.
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Astrium/126/129/3273
[12:24] Zsophia Innovia: https://www.astrium-mists.com/
[12:25] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): I am a healer wherever I am
[12:25] Zsophia Innovia: that is our website
[12:25] Zsophia Innovia: I tend to be as well Ainsley lol
[12:25] Second Life: Breila Jenvieve gave you !CASTERLY ROCK ROLEPLAY! Landing Point.
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Casterly%20Rock%20Roleplay/105/61/1503
[12:25] Wisdomseeker (lissena): is this in SL?
[12:25] Wisdomseeker (lissena): ty breila
[12:27] Zsophia Innovia: what I sent is and we are very accepting of people and races please look at the website it has tons of information and we tend to being friendly on sim
[12:27] Beth Ghostraven: PI, you could include any language challenges in-character
[12:28] PI (pi.illios): Do you role play in paragraphs?
[12:28] Wisdomseeker (lissena): in paragraphs?
[12:28] PI (pi.illios): Yes
[12:28] PI (pi.illios): Like making a story
[12:29] Zsophia Innovia: we have a happy mixture of styles. I tend to match mine to those I am RPing with so that people are comfortable
[12:29] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): I personally do not para roleplay. Sometimes my roleplay is longer, but generally I like to be briefer
[12:29] Marly (marly.milena): Book recommendation: Breakfast with Buddha by Roland Merullo
[12:29] Breila Jenvieve: I don’t personally. I rp like I write, with dialogue and maybe describing expressions to show what’s going on with me.
[12:29] PI (pi.illios): Oh I like that Ainsley
[12:29] Breila Jenvieve: But there are awesome paragraph RPers at Casterly.
[12:30] PI (pi.illios): Better for me Breila
[12:30] Wisdomseeker (lissena): thanks Marly
[12:30] Zsophia Innovia: for me some things as I am healing take more information then when I am simply agreeing with someone lol so I am a mixed bag
[12:30] PI (pi.illios): That I think I can do
[12:30] PI (pi.illios): Nods
[12:30] Beth Ghostraven: Lots of roleplayers in SL use emoting, which means typing /me before typing what your character is doing
[12:31] Zsophia Innovia nods along with Beth
[12:31] PI (pi.illios): I built an exhibit and since then I am more curious
[12:31] Zsophia Innovia: ^^example
[12:31] Beth Ghostraven nudges Serenity an giggles
[12:31] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia, yes
[12:31] Marly (marly.milena): We are all playing roles all the time whether in here or out there…we go through subtle changes depending on who we are dealing with and where we are
[12:31] Zsophia Innovia: Astrium has all level of rpers. which allows everyone to be more comfortable
[12:31] Beth Ghostraven: Marly, true
[12:32] Wisdomseeker (lissena): why is role playing so popular, do you think?
[12:32] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I mean the dramatic kind
[12:32] Beth Ghostraven: I think it’s kind of like reading, but more so – you can experience another life in another setting
[12:32] Breila Jenvieve: It’s like acting, you get to put on someone else’s skin.
[12:32] Marly (marly.milena): It is like what actors say about acting…allows people to try out different personae
[12:32] Marly (marly.milena): Haha Breila–synchronicity!@
[12:33] Breila Jenvieve: Although Breila the Beekeeper is an awful lot like RL Becca,.
[12:33] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): It is a good way to live your fantasies and be that person your mind imagines in rl
[12:33] Breila Jenvieve: Yay Marly
[12:33] Beth Ghostraven: I played in a LARP for several years, a medieval fantasy setting, so we had medieval living with casting spells, etc, in real life
[12:33] Wisdomseeker (lissena): imagination…fantasy…
[12:33] Zsophia Innovia: there is an involvement that you don’t get with reading the ability to change and mold the world you are in
[12:33] Breila Jenvieve: Wear fabulous clothes…
[12:33] Beth Ghostraven: (LARP = live action role playing)
[12:33] Wisdomseeker (lissena): so your senses are more involved?
[12:33] Marly (marly.milena): I think reading fiction touches on this as well. We immerse ourselves in the story characters
[12:33] Beth Ghostraven: Breila yes!
[12:33] PI (pi.illios): True Zsophia
[12:34] Wisdomseeker (lissena): but in this case you ARE the characters Marly
[12:34] Breila Jenvieve: I do SCA, which is more reenacting than LARP
[12:34] Beth Ghostraven: my daughter learned to sew medieval garments and still takes commissions
[12:34] Beth Ghostraven: Breila, yes
[12:34] Marly (marly.milena): When I read fiction, I become each character in turn whether I am being verbal about it or not
[12:34] Beth Ghostraven: SCA is more rigorous
[12:34] Marly (marly.milena): Being in plays, the same.
[12:34] Breila Jenvieve: I love it Marly
[12:35] Beth Ghostraven: Marly, yes
[12:35] Breila Jenvieve: It is rigorous, Beth, that’s why I love it
[12:35] Marly (marly.milena): The book I recommended shows the gradual changes in an ordinary guy on a road trip with a rinpoche…Fascinating
[12:35] Beth Ghostraven: Zsophia, you talked about researching for your roleplay – can you tell us more about that?
[12:36] PI (pi.illios): Diana Gabaldon
[12:36] Beth Ghostraven: PI yes, the author of the Outlander series
[12:37] PI (pi.illios): I love them
[12:37] Beth Ghostraven: (Marly what was the book? I missed the title)
[12:37] Marly (marly.milena): Breakfast with Buddha
[12:38] Marly (marly.milena): (A friend just told me there is a sequel called…wait for it….Lunch with Buddha! ) LOOL
[12:38] Zsophia Innovia: Yes as I said I am looking for First aid to teach that can be used in a medieval setting, I have researched different herbs to heal and hurt, learning about traditional and non traditional elves clothing and also different fighting types and different ways I can heal. My knowledge of anatomy has grown so I can do my ‘magical’ healing
[12:39] PI (pi.illios): Wonderful
[12:39] Zsophia Innovia: It has allowed me to learn more about different folklore as well so I can interact with other races as well
[12:40] PI (pi.illios): I read a lot about the pre and the Ottoman empire for my exhibit. I got so invested – loved it
[12:40] Beth Ghostraven: that’s awesome, PI!
[12:40] Wisdomseeker (lissena): interesting, Pi!
[12:40] Zsophia Innovia: the ottoman empire is fascinating
[12:40] Beth Ghostraven: I think researching for roleplay is a lot like researching for writing historical fiction
[12:40] Breila Jenvieve: It is!
[12:40] Marly (marly.milena): There is a lot to be learned from a close reading of fairy tales and myths
[12:41] Wisdomseeker (lissena): so we answered the question about role playing
[12:41] Wisdomseeker (lissena): its value
[12:41] Breila Jenvieve: I’ve learned more than I ever wanted to know about beekeeping. Talk about immersive learning.
[12:41] Wisdomseeker (lissena): could you use it in rl, breila?
[12:42] Wisdomseeker (lissena): I am always thinking about the transfer from here to outworld
[12:42] Breila Jenvieve: I’m terrified of bees. But I could write about it.
[12:42] Marly (marly.milena): And it is scary to think that, without bees, life as we know it would disappear. Hope the bee population is protected….
[12:42] Beth Ghostraven: I’ve used the virtual world of Minecraft to inspire students to write in RL
[12:43] Beth Ghostraven: They love to tell about what they’ve been doing
[12:43] Breila Jenvieve: Oh nice connection!
[12:43] Marly (marly.milena): I use Symbolic Modeling anywhere. Started through Gestalt Art
[12:44] Stranger Nightfire: remembering the Monty Python sketches about Vikings and beekeepers
[12:44] Wisdomseeker (lissena): remind us, Stranger?
[12:45] Stranger Nightfire: actually I am not remembering them all that well but I remember that they had them
[12:46] Beth Ghostraven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0WXZL30D8
[12:46] Beth Ghostraven: that’s one recording
[12:47] Wisdomseeker (lissena): Beth, you are a marvel!
[12:47] Beth Ghostraven: nah Google is, lol
[12:48] PI (pi.illios): Did you see the Last Kingdom Movie (to finish the series)
[12:48] Zsophia Innovia: peeks the youtube
[12:48] PI (pi.illios): I cried like a baby lol
[12:49] Beth Ghostraven: (ten minutes left)
[12:50] Beth Ghostraven: PI which series?
[12:50] Zsophia Innovia: When it come to RP I like to suggest people try it there are so many forms not just medieval or fantasy there is superhero and urban and all kinds I think it forces you to l;ook at things in new ways
[12:51] PI (pi.illios): The Last Kingdom https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4179452/
[12:52] Beth Ghostraven: @PI thanks
[12:52] Marly (marly.milena): @Zsophia–and we can also look more deeply at the role we play by the way we design our avatars, the dances we choose, and lots of other stuff
[12:52] Beth Ghostraven: I know of at least one post-apocalyptic roleplay sim in SL
[12:52] Wisdomseeker (lissena) whispers: sorry, I have to go to a rl meeting — see you next time
[12:52] Beth Ghostraven: tc Liss
[12:53] Beth Ghostraven: Next week we’ll be visiting the SL20B exhibits
[12:53] Beth Ghostraven: Do any of you have exhibits or shops there?
[12:54] Marly (marly.milena): We have a few minutes. I am posing the question, What do you want people to see, feel, experience, when you present yourself as your Avatar?
[12:54] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): I do
[12:54] PI (pi.illios): I did my shop and hop 😀
[12:54] PI (pi.illios): It’s a sport to me depending of the season
[12:55] Breila Jenvieve: Marly, this is me, just me, only prettier with fabulous hair and wardrobe.
[12:55] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): This is my first SL birthday exhibit. My anxiety has been up a bit lately. lol
[12:55] Beth Ghostraven: Marly, I want people to feel safe around me
[12:55] Marly (marly.milena): I am hoping I am read as artistic, a self-designer, an enjoyer of variety , and not looking for a hookup! Hahaha
[12:55] Breila Jenvieve: Hugs Kitty
[12:56] Beth Ghostraven: Kitty, will we be visiting your exhibit next week?
[12:56] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): Hugs!
[12:56] PI (pi.illios): It will be awesome Serenity
[12:56] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): I’m not sure, Beth. Not that I was told.
[12:56] Beth Ghostraven: ok
[12:56] Beth Ghostraven: Sheila might not have decided yet, she’s at a conference this week
[12:58] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): I haven’t been on much lately because of school. I’ll send her a message. Thank you for the reminder about next week’s birthday visit plan.
[12:58] Marly (marly.milena): I dunno, Beth. When people make themselves small and not human, I don’t feel immediately connected to them. It looks like they are hiding. (Don’t mean this in a critical way)
[12:58] PI (pi.illios): How many of you have exhibits?
[12:58] Beth Ghostraven: Marly, interesting
[12:59] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): I enjoy being a Dinkie because I get to shed human expectations regarding appearance. No one bothers me about my clothing, hair, makeup, or shoes as a Dinkie.
[12:59] Zsophia Innovia: one of my dearest friends in SL is a fennec fox actually and we do interact with them as one though he talks
[12:59] Beth Ghostraven: I was human when I arrived today, but changed to go with Serenity :o)
[12:59] Marly (marly.milena): To be continued….Thanks, all. Sorry I was late today.
[13:00] Beth Ghostraven: we’re glad you’re here, Marly!
[13:00] Beth Ghostraven: It’s closing time – thank you all for coming!
[13:00] PI (pi.illios): Great conversation and thanks for all the information
[13:01] Zsophia Innovia: it was a lovely discussion thank you all. It has given me some things to reflect on
[13:01] Breila Jenvieve: This was fun, thanks everyone!!
[13:01] Beth Ghostraven: I enjoyed it too!
[13:01] ღ Serenity ღ (serenkitty): Hugs, everyone!
[13:01] Beth Ghostraven hugs Serenity back
[13:01] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): I enjoyed the conversation very much. Thank you Beth and all of you for the camaraderie.
[13:01] Breila Jenvieve: Have a great day!
[13:01] Beth Ghostraven: Ainsley we’re glad you’re here
[13:02] Ainsley Rose (bayleh): Thank you so much.
[13:02] Jamie Jordan (jwheels.carver): great meeting y’all
VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Based on a work at http://vwer.info.
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