SL Education Roundtable – Montclair State CHSS Island
Tuesday, March 25th, 2008
“Does Appearance Really Matter for Educators in SL?”
AJ Brooks: hi everyone, sorry I’m late. Please, join us at the table – there is room enough for all. Ok – so – welcome everyone. We have some new faces, so why don’t we all introduce ourselves. No need to wait for anyone, just go ahead and type away – we can all follow it in history
Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Front Range Community College – Colorado
Marcus Clarke – not ad Edu professional, just instered in SL education possiblities
AJ Brooks: I’m AJ Kelton in RL, I”m the Director of Technology Services for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in NJ. I’m also the program administrator who is responsible for this island
LaLuz Graves: I’m an Instructional Designer at Pima College in beautiful Tucson, AZ
Turterelle Cuttita: Hello , I’m from Switzerland , I study languages in SL
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I work for the U.S. National Archives in Missouri
Pennelope Oceanlane: Hi, I’m from Baltimore, MD and work in Educational Publishing
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA student in Education at Sonoma State. I teach in SL and the teen grid now and my MA thesis project will be in SL on life-skills and self-esteem
Existentialisms Janitor is starting a PhD in Info. Sciences in the Fall
Desideria Stockton: I am Beth Ritter-Guth, I teach English FT at Lehigh Carbon CC in PA, and am the CEO of Literature Alive! in SL
Yushua Sleestak: I am BA student in philosophy
Ishara Rosas: Hi, I’m a student. I’m just here to listen if you guys don’t mind. 🙂
AJ Brooks: don’t mind at all
AJ Brooks: OK – now – a little experiment, from my firned Stargazer. Please tell us how you found out about this meeting today. If it was a group, let us know what group and if it was an IM or Notice, if it was from a list, which list, and if it was from events, please let us know that
Kavon Zenovka: SLED
Desideria Stockton: Group
Existentialisms Janitor: SLED calendar
Marcus Clarke: events
Yushua Sleestak: searching events
Ashbrook Llewellyn: group – ISTE, I think
LaLuz Graves: Searching Events under Education.
Millicent Jaerls: events search
Turterelle Cuttita: search / events / discussions
Zotarah Shepherd: You told us about these meetings at a Bridging meeting.
Pennelope Oceanlane: SL Educators Mailing List
AJ Brooks: Wonderful, so a number of you found out about this throu events, so I guess we’ll be advertising through events from now on
Stargazer Blazer: Yayy! I had a feeling 😉
AJ Brooks: thanks to Stargazer for the prodding on that
Desideria Stockton claps for Star
Stargazer Blazer giggles.
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, Desi 🙂
Ztarah Shepherd: Well it is also good to get notices in the Edu Groups AJ.
AJ Brooks: Oh – I”ll be doing the email, groups, and Events
AJ Brooks: ok – so – on to our topic for today. Do appearance really matter for educators in SL? Who wants to dive in on this one?
Desideria Stockton: When you say appearances, you mean avatars, right?
AJ Brooks: Yes. You want to start, Desi, – you’ve done some research on this
Desideria Stockton: Ok 🙂 Being virtual Barbie has been very eye opening. [14:40] Desideria Stockton: selecting Barbie as a universal symbol of femininity. I created this avatar to do gender discourse research. And, I could have changed it when I was done with the exploration, but didn’t. And, if you have met me, you know I neither look nor act like barbie irl. I push the limites. But, I only wear clothing that can be found for a RL Barbie to question whether we send a mixed message to girls about dress, demeanor, and appearnace. Sir Ken Richardson speaks well of educators in that they act by using their bodies to transport their heads tomeetings. Desideria Stockton: I think he is dead spot on
Zotarah Shepherd remembers Desi’s NMC presentation about this.
Yushua Sleestak: I think it depends on the type of students.
AJ Brooks: So – lets do a little survey, real quick, by saying yes or no, how many of you think appearnace matters for educators in SL?
Desideria Stockton: no
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes
AJ Brooks: Yes
Brejon Larkham: y?
LaLuz Graves: yes
Yushua Sleestak: no
Donna Paike: yes
Turterelle Cuttita: y
Millicent Jaerls: yes
Kavon Zenovka: yes
Existentialisms Janitor: yes?
Stargazer Blazer: maybe 😛
Morten Amat: yes
Marcus Clarke: initially yes
Pennelope Oceanlane: no
Desideria Stockton is soooo outnumbered
Ashbrook Llewellyn: depends on the audience
AJ Brooks: 11-3-1. Anyone else?
Peacefrog Ewinaga: depends
Yushua Sleestak: I got your back Desideria 🙂
Desideria Stockton: I think we are judged by the content of our character
AJ Brooks: 11-3-2. Well – character is not immediately visable to avatars even in SL. But thats another subject, hold on that a momnent
Stargazer Blazer: I have found that to be true too, Desi
AJ Brooks: another survey, before we get into the topic
LaLuz Graves: but if I showed up today dressed as a naked slave girl, my appearance would seem to comment on my character (no, I am never a naked slave girl. lol)
Desideria Stockton: the work we do here should be what peopel see as representative of us, not our pixels
AJ Brooks: ok – hang on everyone, one sec
Desideria Stockton: lol
AJ Brooks: hold on the typing for a sec
Zotarah Shepherd: I think we SHOULD be judged by the content of our character, but how we look still counts.
AJ Brooks: second question. Yes or no – how many of you even remotely look like your RL selves
AJ Brooks: Yes
LaLuz Graves: yes
Desideria Stockton: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marcus Clarke: no
Yushua Sleestak: no
Donna Paike: a little
Desideria Stockton: no
Ashbrook Llewellyn: no
Pennelope Oceanlane: no
Morten Amat: no
Millicent Jaerls: yes
Kavon Zenovka: I think appearance matters – but when dressing an isntructor’s avatar in SL, I found a business suit too conservative. That it may actually inhibit the students.
Peacefrog Ewinaga: no
Turterelle Cuttita: no
Zotarah Shepherd: The idea is that our appearance should reflect our character
Existentialisms Janitor: yes
Yushua Sleestak: but to be fair, I dont look like my skin either.
AJ Brooks: 5-8 so far
Zotarah Shepherd: no
AJ Brooks: anyone else? 5-9
Kavon Zenovka: our online character?
AJ Brooks: avatar looks like real life self
Desideria Stockton: I wouldnt want to, honeswtly
AJ Brooks: lol. you’re being hard on yourself. ok, so most of you say that appearnace matters and most of you don’t look like yourself in RL
Kavon Zenovka: I have an avatar that looks like one of my friends.
Desideria Stockton: but that is a funtion of money and diet
AJ Brooks: lol. Now
Donna Paike: lol
Desideria Stockton: i would sooooooo wear them, if I had the money to buy these gowns
Donna Paike: me too and the figure
Desideria Stockton: BUT, I would look like stuffed sausage
AJ Brooks: Desi – talk more about perception of character, which is what you started to say
Desideria Stockton: so I dont 🙂
Kavon Zenovka: and a place where gowns were accepted/
LaLuz Graves: Yes. if I had the money I’d have my AVies wardrobe and toys
Desideria Stockton: I think our work defines us in here
Ashbrook Llewellyn: Desi, now I know what to do with all those bridesmaid dresses 🙂
Desideria Stockton: like Intellagirl. I have ever met her, but have seen her avatar and RL pic
Kavon Zenovka: When I go window shopiing, I now say i cant wear that but my avatar can.
Desideria Stockton: but those didnt sell me on how good she is at SL, what sold me was her blog and her posts to SLed and her work in here
AJ Brooks: ok – but do others see that about us when they first see us, do our students see that about us on the first night in SL
Rachel Corleone: there was a discussion here the other day about problems with a G4 MacBook… are any of the participants online now?
Desideria Stockton: most of them time people dont rez right for me. lol. I donno, i mean I dont know a lot of people here
Ashbrook Llewellyn: Don’t you think that it’s more about identity than appearance? It’s not so much that you look like Barbie, or a 10-foot tall dragon, but that students and colleagues can come to recognize us
AJ Brooks: does it mater what our students think of us?
Desideria Stockton: but I am not looking at their avatars, i am reading their text
AJ Brooks: i’m talking first impressions here
Stargazer Blazer: It is just like RL, your appearacne gets you in the door.
Kavon Zenovka: But is a student’s first impression – you taching a class or you in SL?
LaLuz Graves: Right, I spend more time reading their words than studying the design of the hair.
Donna Paike: I think first impressions still matter here. Everyone is on a level playing field here, we all look relatively alike, no cellulite
Marcus Clarke seconds that sentiment
AJ Brooks: clearly the right thing to do is judege someone on their work
Yushua Sleestak: would it be better if the SL staff were giant dragons instead of RL looking people? Well, maybe not better but different. What would we think of this whole operation if they dressed and looked abstractly?
Millicent Jaerls: Other residents often make judgement of yr SL experience from yr choice of avatar skins/customisations, etc
Desideria Stockton: i am going to ivite one of my students that just signed on he knows me IRL and in here
Donna Paike: I don’t have a double chin
Shailey Garfield: sorry I am late
AJ Brooks: grab a seat, plenty of room for all
Desideria Stockton: Hi Nugget, have a seat
Yushua Sleestak: PS, I dont know much about the SLed, can someone pass me a card or something?
Desideria Stockton: this is Nugget – he is in English 104 with me
AJ Brooks: hi there, welcome
Desideria Stockton: sure, SLed is the SL educators mailing list
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Nugget
AJ Brooks: and click on EDUCATION
Desideria Stockton: http://secondlife.com/education
AJ Brooks: the sled list is talked about there go to secondlife.com
Morten Amat: sorry … have to leave
AJ Brooks: thx desi
Desideria Stockton: Nugget, right click an open seat and then press sit
Yushua Sleestak: thank you, and sorry for the off topic question
Morten Amat: thanks for this interesting conversation
AJ Brooks: not off topic. 🙂
Desideria Stockton: Nugget, we are talking about avatar appearance
AJ Brooks: come back next week, Morten
AJ Brooks: we meet each week at this time
Desideria Stockton: and whether it matters
AJ Brooks: so I have a story
Desideria Stockton: you know me IRL and here
AJ Brooks: it about why I think appearnce matters and it doesn’t
Desideria Stockton: ooooh, goodie 🙂
Morten Amat: yes … i’m looking forward to came again, bye
AJ Brooks: I had a student last semester who was a zebra the whole semester, a zebra. I also had one who was either Mario, from Mario Brothers, or the KoolAid mAn
Desideria Stockton: lol
AJ Brooks: every class
Yushua Sleestak: nice
AJ Brooks: shoudl that matter to me?
LaLuz Graves: I love that we have those options.
Yushua Sleestak: no!
AJ Brooks: now, before you answer
Desideria Stockton: do you think it is different for students and professors, though?
AJ Brooks: on the other side of the coin
LaLuz Graves: Today I’m feeling Mario.
AJ Brooks: what do you think THEY thought of ME?
Ashbrook Llewellyn: In a way, I think the *very* different avatars help us get past appearances
AJ Brooks: would I have had the same respect from them if I was a dragon
LaLuz Graves: First meeting, might be different. Really depends on the extreme to which one might go
Ashbrook Llewellyn: you get a chuckle from talking to Mario, then you focus on the person
AJ Brooks: or a 2′ tall roley poley man
Desideria Stockton: I think the students are too busy trying to figure SL out to care about what we look like, hoestly
AJ Brooks: or a 7′ tall bearded woman
Marcus Clarke: Dr Ruth!
Desideria Stockton: Nugget, does it bug you that I am barbie?
Shailey Garfield: No, I think the apperance does matter
AJ Brooks: so – if thats the case, Desi, why stay as Barbie?
Peacefrog Ewinaga: Depends on what ur teaching
Nugget Questi: It doesn’t bother me
Desideria Stockton: lol
Millicent Jaerls: Maybe a group of SL dragons might want to be taught by a Dragon Educator …
Desideria Stockton: well, that is a good question, AJ. i think – for me – it is brand identity, I am “Barbie with Brains”
AJ Brooks nods
LaLuz Graves: Some AVies are so huge, finstance, that they physically demand too much attention. A zebra with 5 attached zebras is not cute, it’s distrating
Desideria Stockton: and have always been in here
Yushua Sleestak: interesting point AJ! hmmm… I want to say that perhaps as a teacher, there are certain expectations that students have, one of them being that you are a bit more down to earth about yourlife and the such. I dunno, but I still want to say it should not matter either way, rather it be the students or the profs.
Desideria Stockton: packaged that way
Kavon Zenovka: I think an instructor presenting a very conservative appearance could inhibit students at my college.
AJ Brooks: i showed up last week to class in robes – head to toe – sultan robes
Yushua Sleestak: I mean, does a rose by any other name smell just as sweet? ^___^
AJ Brooks: my students FREAKED out
Marcus Clarke: rl or sl?
Kavon Zenovka: really why?
Desideria Stockton: I really dont think my students pay that close attention to what I wear
AJ Brooks: because they alwasy see me like this
Desideria Stockton: they are too busy doing other things
AJ Brooks: now – I don’t dress like this in RL – I never wear a suit to class
Desideria Stockton: like finding nuggets or decorating hell
Zotarah Shepherd: I appear the way I feel most comfortable.
Shailey Garfield: I think it is important to keep the distance for the sakeof some discipline and code of conduct/probably seriousness to the delivery of learning
AJ Brooks: jeans and a pull over
Stargazer Blazer: Oh, so you have established a norm for yourself.
AJ Brooks: i guess so
Yushua Sleestak: excellent point Shailey
Desideria Stockton: Nugget, do you care what I wear in real life class?
AJ Brooks: since I “represent” MSU, in so many places, I thought it was necessary to buy a shape, and form, and skin, and nice suit
Desideria Stockton: there is a dress code at DeSales, but not at LCCC
AJ Brooks: albeit a somewhat chic one! LOL
Ashbrook Llewellyn: That’s a good point – maybe it’s more for our peers than for our students
Desideria Stockton: Ash, I think you are dead spot on
Ashbrook Llewellyn: but that also affects our ability to get funding for projects, to get support, etc
Desideria Stockton: when we are in conferneces
Kavon Zenovka: ours reads something like “should not be a distraction to education”
Shailey Garfield: I am aware of an educator in the UK who doesn’t allow his students to have non-human avatars
AJ Brooks: well – for me, since I am the most prominaant presnce from MSU right now, I think I need to refelct well on the University
Desideria Stockton: NO WAY
AJ Brooks: WHAT???????
LaLuz Graves: the distraction comment definitely applies inworld.
AJ Brooks: why teach in SL then?
Stargazer Blazer: Avatar representation is a form of self expression.
Desideria Stockton: If my students want to be zebras
Kavon Zenovka: I know – I just thought of it as AJ was bringing it up
AJ Brooks: let them!
Desideria Stockton: I would love that they thought about it long enough to choose
Shailey Garfield: He feels that the more we replicate rhe real classroom setting the better students will feel – having the same mental model helps
Kavon Zenovka: we haven’t discussed the dress code at my college yet
Desideria Stockton: Nuggets team decided to dress like Greasers
AJ Brooks: blech lol – kewl so – good question. dress code – anyone else have that?
LaLuz Graves: no
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I think having the same mental model is often more important for adults, frankly
Millicent Jaerls: If nudity is banned in some sims, surely this is an argument that appearance matters
Desideria Stockton: at DeSales there is a dress code
Yushua Sleestak: what would you, as teachers and/or students, think if someone logged in and kept the default avatar the whole time? Would you think of them as uncreative or unexpressive? Just curious…
AJ Brooks: codes of conduct, so to speak?
Desideria Stockton: for faculty
Kavon Zenovka: I hope I never have to have this discussion with adminstrators
Desideria Stockton: but at LCCC, we are union, and we have no code and I challenge it in RL 🙂
Stargazer Blazer: Yushua, I would.
Desideria Stockton: not with revealing stuff
AJ Brooks: what would I think of someone who kept the default avatar – honestly
Donna Paike: I would think that they were not creative and would suggest take them on a shopping trip
AJ Brooks: I would think they didn’t care enough to do something different
Desideria Stockton: now THAT is an excellent point, AJ
LaLuz Graves: a noob Avie would make me ponder the thought process behind the choice. Yes. Didn’t care or was too restricted in their thinking
Kavon Zenovka: My Co-instructor always wore the same thing. Students started bringning him free clthes.
AJ BRooks: now
Desideria Stockton: I would say there is more judgment on newbie avies than “revelaing”ones
Zotarah Shepherd: I am cofacilitating a panel on ISTE this afternoon adn I would not feel right going up there as something different. However I think that is more because I have established an identity looking this way. If I had started out looking different I would stay that way. And I know some who change AVs almost every day.
AJ Brooks: if they made a CONSCIOUS decision to do that
Ashbrook Llewellyn: but we’re assuming that newbie is bad
AJ Brooks: thats different
Donna Paike: I agree
LaLuz Graves: Agreed
Ashbrook Llewellyn: and prim hair is good
Desideria Stockton: And Zototrah, you got GREAT style
Ashbrook Llewellyn: which is pretty much the judgmental attitude we get in rl
Stargazer Blazer: Yes, part of being here is expressing who you are in your outward appearance. We truly can be judged by our actions here, and show who we think we are, or would like to be.
Desideria Stockton: I would really wonder if you showed up looking anything but elegant
AJ Brooks: judgement – there we go – it is your brand
Yushua Sleestak: You guys are interesting. You dont care about a Zebra avatar, but in a way, you judge if their avatar is unchanged.
AJ Brooks: do we do in SL what we abhor in RL
Kavon Zenovka: In snow crash didn’t one of the characters use her nebie avatar to make a statement.
Desideria Stockton: It is interesting, Yushua
Marcus Clarke: gotta run – thanks folks
Desideria Stockton: but Vivkie Davis comes in here
AJ Brooks: well – the zebra person made an effort to show creativity
Donna Paike: I agee with Star and also think that what we choose to wear also reflects who we are
Desideria Stockton: as does Philip Linden, and I dont judge them and she uses a default, so maybe it isn’t always true if you know the person in advance
AJ Brooks: well – Philip is making a statement
Ashbrook Llewellyn: it does teach you something about others and their assumptions
Yushua Sleestak: What if the creativity is in their speech, and not their image, like I think it ought to be looked for.
Desideria Stockton: (I dont make enough Linden?)
AJ Brooks: lol
Desideria Stockton: I agree, Yushua
Stargazer Blazer: This is a visual environment. I form an image in my head when I meet a person through IMs. Then when they rez, it is always a nice surprise. 🙂
AJ Brooks: I would certainly ask a student why they kept the default form. to be honest the number one questions I get from students when they first come in is how to change their appearnace
LaLuz Graves: Creativity in their text/speech can easilly override the appearance.
Desideria Stockton: I actually pay a former student to help my students get dressed
Stargazer Blazer: We are able to develop a visual literacy here.
Yushua Sleestak: Ah! so then, perhaps they left it for you and everyone else to ask that question. I mean,. what better way to get to the meat of the matter, no?
Desideria Stockton: (and I lend her out, btw)
Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: what is this
Kavon Zenovka: I get the same thing from students – we have to pause and let them play around with it for a bit before we continue with the orientation.
Zotarah Shepherd: Most of the Lindens I have seen in SL are quite creative in their AV appearances.
Desideria Stockton: Nugget, do yuo look at appearances of the students in class?
Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: is this a class
AJ Brooks: no, covergirl, its a meeting
Desideria Stockton: come have a seat covergirl
Ashbrook Llewellyn: Hi, Cover. This is a discussion of avatar appearance and education in SL
AJ Brooks: todays topic is on appearnce in sSL for educators
Nugget Questi: I notice the more “unusual” ones
Desideria Stockton: we are talking about appearance and education
AJ Brooks: BIRDIE!!
Desideria Stockton: Now, our main builder, Eloise, wears a collar, does that bother you, Nugget?
AJ Brooks: and nipple rings
Desideria Stockton: BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes, and nipple rings, but she covers them upo for class
Yushua Sleestak: What is it about appearence that grabs us so, in RL and SL. Are we really that shallow of a creature? Some evolunatary thing? I dunno, but it sure is weird. People seem to be set up to survive in reality, not understand it.
Birdie Newcomb: Hi folks. multitasking
AJ Brooks: its not just us – its all living creatures
Yushua Sleestak: Bonjour! Ca va bien?
Desideria Stockton has missed Birdie 🙂 it is good to see you
AJ Brooks: appearnce matters
Yushua Sleestak: 🙂
Desideria Stockton: it matters, but to what degree?
Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: can I butt in and ask what shcool is this
Desideria Stockton: I dont grade my students on appearance
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Birdie. Good to see you.
Yushua Sleestak: point taken AJ, but then extend my wonder to all of life and not just humans
AJ Brooks: look to your left, Covergirl
Desideria Stockton: they are graded on their writing and communication skills
AJ Brooks: lol – Yushua
Birdie Newcomb: Hi Zo
Yushua Sleestak: 😀
Desideria Stockton: and I dont think they grade me on my appearance
Brielle Coronet is Online
Desideria Stockton: but if I am fair and equitable and teach them something
Nugget Questi: Not really. I don’t think too much about fashion in real life. Considering this, I think it matters even less in SL. I also would say that fashion is more of a non-conformity statement than a conformity statement here.
AJ Brooks: but I do think they JUDEG you on yoru appearnce
Covergirl1922 Ballyhoo: ohh sorry
Stargazer Blazer: Why don’t educators exploit the ability to change shape?
Yushua Sleestak: life seems to want to live first, and then understand second. Who would of thunk it. 🙂
Donna Paike: I agree, I think our first “take” on someone is how they look, after that we listen to them to find out who they are
AJ Brooks: does considering appearnce make us shallow?
Donna Paike: in some ways sl levels that playing field
Desideria Stockton: what if your colelge or uni FORCED you to change
Stargazer Blazer: Many keep one shape, one outfit, why not change into a different costume or persona for every class and make it topic related? would you?
Donna Paike: no way
Yushua Sleestak: Define Judge, as I think we may be using two difference versons of it. I am using it in the sense of moving one’s action and opinions in a given way based on the appearence
Peacefrog Ewinaga: it’s shallow if that’s all that is considered
Turterelle Cuttita: I m sorry I have to leave , greetings from Switzerland
Desideria Stockton: take care 🙂
AJ Brooks: bye Turterelle
Desideria Stockton: it was great to meet you
AJ Brooks: thanks for coming
Yushua Sleestak: Avoir 🙂
Desideria Stockton: see you next week!
AJ Brooks: for other who may need to leave, we meet here each Tuesday from 2:30pm SLT. next weeks topic is – but – enough of that – back to this
Desideria Stockton must go in 5 minutes
Kavon Zenovka: cool
AJ Brooks: great conversation
Pennelope Oceanlane: I like the idea of different costumes that are topic related.
AJ Brooks: What is Google up to and how will it impact education
Desideria Stockton: yes – I do, too
Shailey Garfield: Yes, I agree Penelope
Desideria Stockton: I love going to role play sims like Caledon, not so much Gor
Donna Paike: there are great role playing places in sl
Desideria Stockton: but, I like to see Calendon, when they have a ball – it is amazing
Stargazer Blazer: We can do so much here. it’s barely be used for that purpose.
Yushua Sleestak: I use to do the Gor. Back in ’06. It was a bit different then
Desideria Stockton: and really cool
Shailey Garfield: I think the more we can make it like RL, the more comfortable students will be
Desideria Stockton: were you a master or slave?
Ashbrook Llewellyn: It reminds me of the way people new to SL expect online campuses to have the same buildings their RL ones do. At first, that seems like the way to go because it’s familiar. Over time, though, those same people might learn to like wildly different spaces for learning (or wildly different avatars)
Desideria Stockton: Ash, you are soo right about that
Yushua Sleestak: I was neither, I was a wandering philosopher/begger character
Stargazer Blazer: I think the more we can make it relevant the more comfortable everyone will be.
AJ Brooks: good comment, Ashbrook
Desideria Stockton: i think people come in thinking “OMG! I am using this really odd techno..i had better tow the line”
Shailey Garfield: yes, I agree Ashbrook – but getting over the initial hump is important
AJ Brooks: the only place on tis island that looks ANYTHIGN like the real MSU is this area
Desideria Stockton: and then they realize that they can explore
Nugget Questi: In real life, there is typically one or two styles of clothing that are considered “in;” styles which I couldn’t care less about. And I feel the traditions of wearing formal attire to specific events, stylish clothes to others, is nothing more than a paradigm.
AJ Brooks: but it also happens to be the telehub
Desideria Stockton: and then they change things up a bit
AJ Brooks: so what does THAT say
Desideria Stockton: I wear whatever is clean
Yushua Sleestak: wow, interesting AJ
Desideria Stockton: I truly am the “scattered brain” professor
AJ Brooks: and that was a conscious choice on my part
Stargazer Blazer giggles at Desi’s comment.
Desideria Stockton: (Nugget is laughing – he can tell you). I wore my RL dress backwards today
Yushua Sleestak: “weclome to a RL mapping of MSU…… fooooooooool you” :)(
Nugget Questi: In Second Life, however, there is no set standard for dress, be it a dress code or simply what’s “in.” You also don’t have to worry about the “uncomfortable” factor
Desideria Stockton: had to turn it around in the elevator, that is true, Nugget
AJ Brooks chuckles at Desi
Zotarah Shepherd: Maybe it is important to ask if appearance add to the ability to suspend disbelief with our students so they will be more invested in SL as real communication.
Desideria Stockton: if your team didnt have a dress code, would you change your appearance, nugget?
AJ Brooks: suspenstion of disbelief. I talked about that some in a paer I wrote on SL and education
AJ Brooks: important concept
Desideria Stockton: Now, Kavon has also met me, in Denver, where she can attest to my non-barbie-ness
Yushua Sleestak: willing suspenstion of disbelief is the first step to both madness and civility
Desideria Stockton: did it make you value the work there more or less?
AJ Brooks: Here’s an intersting thought
Kavon Zenovka: yes and I don’t look like this either
Desideria Stockton: LOL. I would love to have seen you with blue hair
AJ Brooks: I don’t think value of work and appearenace is tied – so what is it about appearnce?
Kavon Zenovka: But it does kind of fit my personality
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I think it’s more important for us to find a comfortable appearance for ourselves – whether that’s a 1920s flapper or a giant lizard or Barbie
Kavon Zenovka: I wore Doc Martens combat boots every day
Ashbrook Llewellyn: If we’re comfortable with whatever appearance, that will show
Desideria Stockton: appearance, in here, seems to be an indication of time spent on detail
Yushua Sleestak: appearence=value of time. Good appearence = worth the valuble time that is my life.
AJ Brooks: here liz-ard liz-ard liz-ard
Nugget Questi: I don’t think how I look, in real life or in second life really matters. I probably wouldn’t have picked the greaser look, since I don’t really look like this. But for our American project, I think it fits.
Desideria Stockton: that is a really good point, Nugget. I could NEVER see you dressing like this in real life, it isnt your style but it DOES fit your team style
AJ Brooks: right click and select sit
Desideria Stockton: they run a team called “Manville”. all males
AJ Brooks: YEAH!!!!
Desideria Stockton: for the American Project
Donna Paike: I disagree, I think appearance in rl matters more than it does here. We often judge people on their appearance, fat, thin, bald, cross-eyed
AJ Brooks: Testesterone, baby!
Desideria Stockton: I agree with Donna. In RL people care much more people are denied tenure bc of how they dress
Ashbrook Llewellyn: There is bias here, too, though
AJ Brooks: oh yes there is
Desideria Stockton: in here, I don’t think the SLed community is so shallow
AJ Brooks: just like in RL
Ashbrook Llewellyn: If I wear this hair and these glasses in SL, very few people tend to talk to me, compared to the hair I was wearing when I came in
Desideria Stockton: do you think there is a bias, AJ?
Shailey Garfield: I would care the same in SL – especially if its an educational setting
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I know that’s odd, but it’s proven true
AJ Brooks: i do – to some extent
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I should’ve kept statistics
AJ Brooks: i think there are expectations
Ashbrook Llewellyn: And this looks much more like my rl hair and glasses 🙂
Desideria Stockton: I would say the bias is against the newbie avatar, not so much a “polished” one dressed in silks or nude
Donna Paike: I agree with Desideria
AJ Brooks: well – I agree about the newbie part
Donna Paike: that’s the first thing that I try to help people with
Desideria Stockton: but, I think that in here, there are people that dress a certain way and people “accept” it
AJ Brooks: but I think the peopel who dress very VERY provocatively are not taken as seriously, even if they are exceptional at what they do
Zotarah Shepherd: I think credibility is an issue. We can be anything if it looks intentional and expresses a part of ourselves.
Kavon Zenovka: Yes – I’m bad I’m always fixing faculty avatars – new shoes, better hair that i have, etc.
Desideria Stockton: Eloise Pasteur, CDB Barkely, Intellagirl
Peacefrog Ewinaga: The amount of Lindens spent on appearance products suggests that the consensus cares about appearance
Desideria Stockton: those three have a certain “look” and people have come to know it and trust it
AJ Brooks: Well – Sarah LOOKS like herself
Desideria Stockton: true, she does
AJ Brooks: CDB is a dog, so – lol
Ashbrook Llewellyn: so there’s a “brand” quality to it
Birdie Newcomb: On In Kenzo
Desideria Stockton: I think there is a brand quality
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes pink hair streak and all.
Donna Paike: yes
LaLuz Graves: Default As ar possibly a misunderstood breed of free-thinkers? Some may be intentional non-identities so that they are free to be every identity through words/actions
AJ Brooks: I can say – there are some peopel who would NOT have Elo work for them, even though she is so good at what she does
Desideria Stockton: yes, that is true AJ
AJ Brooks: it’s hard to convince the president or provost or BoT about some things
LaLuz Graves: CDb Barkley may not look like his RL self, but he looks like his RL personality
AJ Brooks: lol
Desideria Stockton: I think there are people who dont hire her because of her dress code but, she refuses to change it, so I thik the better of her for that she does not suvccumb to the pressures here
AJ Brooks: he’s a dog? ALl men are dawgs!
Kavon Zenovka: But the people who won’t hire her, are they really SL residents?
Donna Paike giggles
Yushua Sleestak: therefor Socrates is a dog 🙂
AJ Brooks: she deserve kudos for doing it her own way
Yushua Sleestak: so, philosophy joke slipped out of me…
LaLuz Graves: NOT what I meant, AJ. He’s great funm dedicated, loyal. a good buddy.
Desideria Stockton: lol
Yushua Sleestak: *sorry
AJ Brooks: 🙂 well, I’m told all men really ARE dwags, though
Stargazer Blazer: I think that is a shame. well, that, too.
AJ Brooks: dawgs, even
LaLuz Graves: Viva la differance, then, AJ
Zotarah Shepherd: Is there not a sense of appropriateness for the occassion?
AJ Brooks: viva!!!!
Desideria Stockton: well, that may be, but, really, I think that it is not as a big a deal
Stargazer Blazer: Isn’t that a prejudice, AJ?
Desideria Stockton: not with students
AJ Brooks: oh – of course – I’m only half serious
Desideria Stockton: But, maybe it is because I explain the avatar to them
AJ Brooks: i don’t think I”m a dawg. woof
Desideria Stockton: and the educators here know I research gender discourse and virtual ethics
AJ Brooks: opps
Kavon Zenovka: Desi – do you feel you have to explain?
AJ Brooks: 🙂
Desideria Stockton: so they accept Barbie and Beth. not really, kavon – not to students, but to professionals, yes
Stargazer Blazer: I was referring to the point about there being people who wouldn’t hire Eloise based on her dress?
Desideria Stockton: Eloise is an excellent scripter
Kavon Zenovka: Do you think your Barbie avatar is normal for SL?
Birdie Newcomb: Teens on the Teen Gred seem to enjoy diversity
Desideria Stockton: the is the best in the business, in my opinion
AJ Brooks: exceptional
Birdie Newcomb: Even on the same day or hour
Desideria Stockton: but, some people think their “purse holders” will be offended
Kavon Zenovka: Desi- I didn’t know the background and I just thought you had a normal “attractive” female avatar with great hair.
Stargazer Blazer: And so there are people who won’t hire her because of her dress?
Desideria Stockton: LOL!
LaLuz Graves: I’m not sure the administration would see the dress of the builder in the same way as the dress of a professor
AJ Brooks: or lack thereof
Desideria Stockton: why thank you, Kavon 🙂
AJ Brooks: 🙂
Desideria Stockton: I agree LaLuz
Stargazer Blazer: So, that tells you, it does matter.
Desideria Stockton: when Elo started volunteering for literature alive, her Mistress emailed me
Desideria Stockton: and asked permission to allow Eloise to wear her outfits
LaLuz Graves: And the beauty of it is that it is OK for her to dress her way and still function as an awesome person and builder
Desideria Stockton: I was sooooo happy to have her as a volunteer
Stargazer Blazer: It does matter how you dress if you may or may not have work because of it.
Desideria Stockton: AND I wanted to be open minded
AJ Brooks: the shock wears off quickly
Desideria Stockton: so, there are times when I am totally totally blown away by what she is wearing
AJ Brooks: I can tell you first hand
LaLuz Graves: True.
Desideria Stockton: but, then I just keep it in perpective
AJ Brooks: since Desi and Elo built two of our attractions here
Desideria Stockton: and she respects my students
AJ Brooks: and I met Desi first
LaLuz Graves: and we are living in a game, no?
AJ Brooks: Elo came with the package
Desideria Stockton: and has never come to class dressed in her yoke or chains
AJ Brooks: game? no
Desideria Stockton: lol
AJ Brooks: not at all. SL is definitely NOT a game
Ishara Rosas: Thank you guys for letting me listen do your discussion. Wish I could stay for the whole thing but I have to go. 🙂
AJ Brooks: Games have rules and goals
Desideria Stockton: yeah, aj, you can’t meet two differently dressed people in all of SL
AJ Brooks: lol – it was a shock, Desi, as you well remember
Desideria Stockton: and, Schnecksville is, as you can imagine by its name, rather conservative
AJ Brooks: but, i got over it
Desideria Stockton: but, I learned to cope with it
AJ Brooks: before more folks start to leave, and as we get to the end of our hour
Desideria Stockton: and, really, these are just pixels, right?
AJ Brooks: I want to thank everyone for coming today. I”ll be hanging out, but if you ahve to leave, please feel free to do so anytime
LaLuz Graves: And your reaction, AJ is exactly why I chose the word “game” as opposed to my typical “virtual world”. Feeling the room.
AJ Brooks: we meet here each Tuesday t 2:30pm Second Life time, if you want to stay, feel free _ i’ll be here for a bit
LaLuz Graves: Thank you fotr deciding to put it out through Events. This was a great find.
Yushua Sleestak: this was a very nice conversation! I cant wait for next weeks! Where do I sign up for the mailing list at? =-)
Toady Nakamura: super find
Desideria Stockton: This was great, AJ. ty
Kavon Zenovka: Bye – thanks for the conversation!
AJ Brooks: YOu can join EDUCAUSE Virtual Worlds if you’d like
Desideria Stockton: i must feed the RL troops
Yushua Sleestak: I think I now want to put some time into making my own avatar!
AJ Brooks: I send stuff there
Desideria Stockton: take care all
Pennelope Oceanlane: I’ve enjoyed the conversation and look forward to next week. Thanks
Donna Paike: you as well
Toady Nakamura: making avi’s is pretty easy
Yushua Sleestak: I know not the first step 😦
Toady Nakamura: edit appearance > new skin
Zotarah Shepherd: We are like artists here with everything we do and our canvas is our avatar as well as the virtual environments we build.
AJ Brooks: i’ll also be putting things in eventsf rom now on (thank you very much stargazer)
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ, great discussion today. 🙂
AJ Brooks: yes – today was awesome – and thanks to all of you for that
Yushua Sleestak: 🙂
Stargazer Blazer: You’re welcome 🙂
Birdie Newcomb: Few poeople, including myself, seem to spend muchy time on gestures and animations
Shailey Garfield: Thanks.
AJ Brooks: i’ve watned to experiment with that, but not made the time
Zotarah Shepherd: I don’t feel right when the walk animation does not work and I have to use the default one.
AJ Brooks: lol – i know, walk like a duck
Stargazer Blazer: I don’t mind it, hehe.
Birdie Newcomb: I eweem to wobble, except when I have skates on
Donna Paike: great group, thanks Stargazer for telling me about it
AJ Brooks: ?
Zotarah Shepherd: I also don’t like the default stance with both hands on hips but I have not found a better one yet.
Stargazer Blazer: You’re welcome 😉
Yushua Sleestak: I think I am going to go and work on my avatar some 🙂 thanks all! Desy, I use to be a hooker in SL. Its how I got my money to buy this outfit. I know what you mean when you talk about the Barbie stuff.
AJ Brooks: oh – I like that one, Desi had to take off, Yushua
Yushua Sleestak: oh shoot. Oh well, C’est la vie
AJ Brooks: e la gar
Toady Nakamura: LA VIE
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks for the interesting discussion.
AJ Brooks: well thanks for coming by, hope you’ll come back next week
Yushua Sleestak: until next week 🙂
Zotarah Shepherd: I wish it was a bit earlier
Toady Nakamura: I’m sorry i got here so late, i only saw it in Events after it started
Bisbee Writer: Yes, I’m sorry I was late too. Sounds like an interesting conversation
AJ Brooks: the topic changes each week
Bisbee Writer: I hope to be back next time!
AJ Brooks: and I’m hoping to line up some guests, excellent
Bisbee Writer: thanks
Originally uploaded by AJ Brooks. Downloaded from http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com/080325 by Sheila Yoshikawa, June 2018