Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: November 29 2018
Topic: “Open Forum”
Lightly edited for typos by Sheila Yoshikawa; photo by Sheila Yoshikawa
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. 8pm In UK, 3pm EST. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds.
Sheila Yoshikawa: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/ The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook please join our group there http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/
Josain Zsun: /gd…clearing 10 says IMs & Notices
Sheila Yoshikawa: I am moderating today. The topic for this week’s meeting will be: Open Forum, any discussion or question connected with virtual worlds education
Sheila Yoshikawa: but before that
Sheila Yoshikawa: Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual we will be in text chat for the whole session.
Sheila Yoshikawa: So I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK and I am lead organiser for VWER
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Selby Evans, DFW, Blogger,
MUVE (virtual world) weekly update 11/29/2018
3DWebWorldz offers 3D spaces on the browser, seeks support via Patreon for further development
Thinkerer roast, 89th birthday: how to live to be an antique
A collaborative blog is social media if you use it that way
SceneGate: updating the strawman model for education
Kitely will offer private grids with dedicated login pages
Beth Ghostraven: I’m Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com); Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference; Communications Chair and Focus Sessions Producer for the ISTE Virtual Environments Network; and unofficial liaison between education groups in SL. For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at http://venetwork.weebly.com/calendar.html; Twitter: @booklady9 I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript and recording this session on video; if you have any objection, please IM me.
Beth Ghostraven: Happy Birthday, Selby!
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): ty. Beth
Scot Jung: I’m a professor of educational leadership at George Fox University, in Oregon, USA
Sheila Yoshikawa: Oh, just saw that 89th birthday video, Selby! Congratulations ;-)))
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Scot, Robin Ashford used to be in SL a lot, back in the day, do you know her? She’s a librarian at George Fox University
Scot Jung: yes
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): The educational relevance of the video is that we could do the same thing about education.
Scot Jung: Robin and I work together some and she and I co-taught here in sl a number of years ago
Sheila Yoshikawa: I knew her fairly well when she was teaching and being a librarian in here
Scot Jung: Robin is great, quite an asset!
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Hi Alex
Beth Ghostraven: Hi Alex, welcome to VWER
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby, the same thing in which way?
Alex Bonham (Alexandre100233 Bonham): hello
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello Alex
Sheila Yoshikawa: In fact I think we finished introductions and now it’s up for anyone to suggest a topic or question for discussion
Sheila Yoshikawa: although we may have started, with selby
Sheila Yoshikawa: talking about his video
Sheila Yoshikawa: or rather me asking about it
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): How about a roast of the traditional education system, where we explain that having people sit in a classroom and take notes is great preparation/practice for life
Beth Ghostraven: lol Selby
Beth Ghostraven: the Monty Python approach to education
Beth Ghostraven: I think it’s a great idea!
Scot Jung: “bring out your dead”
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): yes — and I can make the video
Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s an ex-educator
Beth Ghostraven: like that spoof video that shows teacher hiring as if it were the NFL draft
Josain Zsun: It wasn’t?
Sheila Yoshikawa: the peril is someone stumbling across it and thinking it’s for real
Sheila Yoshikawa: or those people with no sense of humour
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): several presentations or skits of about 7 minutes each
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Josain
Beth Ghostraven: Selby, I think something that long would lose people’s attention
Josain Zsun remembering the cattle calls in Tucson…
Sheila Yoshikawa: so just a few minutes?
Beth Ghostraven: I tend to drift off after 2 or 3 minutes of a video
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We have it clearly labeled as comedy in case a dean see it
Sheila Yoshikawa: we don’t want it labeled as misinformation!
Scot Jung: hey, I was a dean, and I would appreciate it!
Beth Ghostraven: then again, I’m very easily distracted
Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Comedy holds attention better than lecture
Beth Ghostraven: very true
Beth Ghostraven: almost anything does
Scot Jung: the question is, why does the lecture prevail?
Sheila Yoshikawa: As an alternative to people in SL dancing, though I myself am guilty of posting a couple of videos of educators dancing in SL to Youtube
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Once you hear a lecture about swimming, you never forget what you learned about lectures.
Beth Ghostraven: haha Selby
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Scot it is an “efficient” way to reach a large number of people at the same time, it takes less time to prepare than more thoughtful and engaged teaching, and universities have a load of large lecture rooms it is difficult to use for anything else
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby lol
Beth Ghostraven: Scot, excellent question–maybe lecture is the pedantic version of storytelling?
Beth Ghostraven: but Sheila, it’s not efficient if it’s not effective
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): And profs already have the lectures prepared
Scot Jung: I learned from great lecturers in the past, there is a place
Scot Jung: for me the key question is: who is responsible for learning?
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes I think there is still a place for someone talking in an interesting way about something they care about
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think actually the learner has the ultimate responsibility for learning, to be honest
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There is a place for great lectures, yes. On video or audio files.
Sheila Yoshikawa: but I see my responsibility to facilitate and scaffold learning and challenge learners too
Scot Jung: I think lecture persists because we have students who don’t want to be responsible for learning what is offered
Sheila Yoshikawa: I see it as my responsibility to create the conditions for learning
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There is that, Scott
Scot Jung: and educators who offer what is not wanted
Sheila Yoshikawa: though it is mixed, there are a lot of educators who are doing more than lectures and learners who do take responsibility for learning, but it’s not 100% with either…..
Sheila Yoshikawa: also you said Beth “but Sheila, it’s not efficient if it’s not effective”
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I taught a class in research design and some students complained that I was not presenting material that would be on the test.
Josain Zsun: There were a couple of rare, dynamic teachers and professors that I loved to attend
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby yes you get that sort of thing
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Josain what subject was it you were studying?
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I told them the test would call on them to show their skills in evaluating research designs, not memorize what was in the book or a lecture.
Josain Zsun: They were different subjects…and probably could have been any topic.
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Josain
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby yes that is the sort of topic where it is pointless to try and memorise, that won’t help you apply what you’ve learnt….
Josain Zsun: RL calls…Best of the Season All
Beth Ghostraven: take care, Josain!
Beth Ghostraven: Hi Fuzz!
Sheila Yoshikawa: Our research methods class for our Masters students is taught almost entirely through big lectures, this year we have nearly 500 students taking it, most of them international (particularly Chinese) so that is challenging…..
Scot Jung: Here is an interesting scenario, on a course evaluation of a friend of mine who taught physics to pre-med students, he took a constructivist approach and on the course evaluation he got ripped apart because the students told him he made them do all the work, a favorite quote was, “I learned a lot in this class, but you did not teach me anything”
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello Fuzz, always nice to see you!
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): lol, scott
Sheila Yoshikawa: OMG Scot
Sheila Yoshikawa: that really is depressing
Fuzz Difference: o/
Scot Jung: I thought learning was the goal, anyway
Scot Jung: not teaching
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that’s the most depressing of all when it’s perceived as NOT being about learning
Sheila Yoshikawa: If it’s not about learning, perhaps we should just forget it all and sell people instant qualifications
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think some years ago there was a student here who was in a focus group about the teaching and learning who said “I didn’t come here to learn, I came to get a degree”
Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, that’s sad
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes
Scot Jung: @Sheila, I think we are getting to the instant qualifications thing
Scot Jung: and maybe in some skill areas that is okay, but sounds not training and not education to me
Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m not totally unrealistic, and people have different pressures and goals, but learning, going to university and learning changed my life
Scot Jung: like training, sorry
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Many students view education as passing tests, not developing life skills. Many schools present it that way.
Scot Jung: ]agreed, Selby
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes one issue in the UK is that people are being channelled into university when perhaps they might gain more by going another route
Sheila Yoshikawa: but parents, teachers etc say “you’ve got to get a degree qualification”
Beth Ghostraven: I think that’s happening a lot in the US too–“everyone should take algebra and go to college!”
Scot Jung: that is breaking down here in the US
Sheila Yoshikawa: ;-(
Beth Ghostraven: Here’s something I wonder about a lot: Are people, as a whole, getting dumber?
Scot Jung: basic intelligence, no
Scot Jung: fully formed and capable humans, hmm?
Sheila Yoshikawa: well, the grades people are getting at various educational levels in the UK are going UP, ahem
Sheila Yoshikawa: there is discussion around whether it’s people getting brighter or grade inflation
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that there seems to be as much peer pressure not to appear too bright as there ever was?
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): How do you turn a C student into a B student? Admit him to graduate school.
Beth Ghostraven: lol
Sheila Yoshikawa: and not necessarily being encouraged to work at being able to concentrate on things, or persist with hard concepts?
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Selby
Sheila Yoshikawa: I don’t think people are getting more stupid, but I don’t think the education system and society are encouraging people as they could to work at challenging ideas, expanding ideas? Or this could be age speaking
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): It is possible to make multiple choice questions that test thinking, but easier to make those for memory of facts.
Sheila Yoshikawa: nods
Scot Jung: Here is a factoid from my newsfeed yesterday, the average ug does 14 hours out of class work per week compared to 24 20 some years ago
Beth Ghostraven: ug?
Sheila Yoshikawa: what was the research for that?
Scot Jung: undergrad
Beth Ghostraven: oh undergrad! lol
Sheila Yoshikawa: undergraduate
Scot Jung: I will try to find it
Scot Jung: and post it before we go
Beth Ghostraven: imagining cave people
Sheila Yoshikawa: So here, I think there are more students having to take jobs, also more peer pressure to spend time drinking and clubbing (in the UK the limit is 18 for drinking, I think you have to be older in USA?)
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Beth
Scot Jung: 21 in US
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I don’t think people are getting dumber, I think life is requiring smarter people
Sheila Yoshikawa: having to cope with more forms of communication
Sheila Yoshikawa: and smarter in other ways Selby?
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): there is no job for Job for John Henry
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): People need to learn how to learn
Sheila Yoshikawa: and for that – they need information literacy
Sheila Yoshikawa: had to get that in
Beth Ghostraven: yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: BTW is there another topic anyone wanted to raise?
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): What you learned in school is not good for a job 20 years later
Scot Jung: what about kindness, collaboration, empathy, problem solving
Scot Jung: those seem to be sustainable throughout one’s life
Sheila Yoshikawa: they are certainly what you want in co-workers and managers!
Sheila Yoshikawa: and indeed students and customers
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There could be big news coming from OpenSim by the time we get to OSCC
Sheila Yoshikawa: do as you would be done by
Beth Ghostraven: As far as I know, Rhiannon Chatnoir will be here next week to talk about OSCC
Scot Jung: tell more about OSCC please
Sheila Yoshikawa: I don’t know anything much about it
Sheila Yoshikawa: Beth or Selby?
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): not just OSCC –just by that time; See this https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/07/2018-edu-biz-kitely-will-offer-private.html
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Schools can have their own grids
Scot Jung: thanks, I will check it out
Scot Jung: one other question
Scot Jung: or topic
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): under their own management. They won’t have to let grid managers screw things up — they can do it better!!
Scot Jung: what topic has drawn the largest gathering to this roundtable in the last year?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think it was the sessions that were part of the VWMOOC
Sheila Yoshikawa: possibly the talks from Mark? Gann McGann
Scot Jung: I’m curious what educators are passionate about and interested in
Sheila Yoshikawa: and the one on using Minecraft
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I think VWMOOC too
Sheila Yoshikawa: I would ask if any of you have suggestions for discussion topics, or people to be interviewed, next year? we are always open to suggestion!
Scot Jung: I have a project i am working on that I need help on
Sheila Yoshikawa: also the panel session with Heike Philps, Marly and Kali
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes basically the VWMOOC ones, as there was an additional audience
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Let’s work with Scot on his project
Sheila Yoshikawa: how could we help, Scot?
Scot Jung: thanks for all of that
Scot Jung: I will give you the one minute speech
Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
Scot Jung: and then, if you think worthy, more on the time you pick
Scot Jung: I am trying to build a simulation here for decision making and fostering empathy
Scot Jung: for educators and others
Sheila Yoshikawa: exciting!
Scot Jung: based on a board game we developed for f2f
Scot Jung: I need some beta testers
Scot Jung: it would require a field trip to the sim
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I am available.
Beth Ghostraven: I think that sounds really interesting
Scot Jung: i have had my own students visit, but they do not know sl
Scot Jung: and we spent most the time teaching them how to move and communicate
Scot Jung: i need some people who are fluent in the medium
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We do field trips at VWER
Scot Jung: to become familiar with the game and then suggest how to make it work
Sheila Yoshikawa: when do you need it done
Scot Jung: end of Jan to end of Feb
Scot Jung: somwhere in that time frame
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We can do that — Just not Dec
Scot Jung: no
Scot Jung: not good for me either
Sheila Yoshikawa: would you like us to make it a VWER session?
Scot Jung: if you are willing
Sheila Yoshikawa: for example we could do the 3rd Thursday in Jan
Scot Jung: i can give some background material to organizers
Sheila Yoshikawa: or the fitrst thurs in February
ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I would hope to do an article on that if possible, Scott
Beth Ghostraven: Scot, if you’d also like to do an ISTE VEN Focus Session on it, we could do that on Tuesday February 19 @ 5 pm SLT
Scot Jung: let me check calendar on all of those
Scot Jung: thank you for your offers to help
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): 1 min
Sheila Yoshikawa: Great I will put that in for 7th Feb – what would be the title “Testing a decision making & empathy game”?
Beth Ghostraven: Scot, I’ll put you on the calendar and we can talk more later
Scot Jung: Sheila, that will work
Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks Selby
Scot Jung: \and beth, thank you
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes that is it for this week