2018-11-29 “Open Forum”

29-11-18 VWERTranscript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: November 29 2018
Topic: “Open Forum”

Lightly edited for typos by Sheila Yoshikawa; photo by Sheila Yoshikawa

Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. 8pm In UK, 3pm EST. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds.

Sheila Yoshikawa: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/ The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook please join our group there http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/

Josain Zsun: /gd…clearing 10 says IMs & Notices

Sheila Yoshikawa: I am moderating today. The topic for this week’s meeting will be: Open Forum, any discussion or question connected with virtual worlds education

Sheila Yoshikawa: but before that

Sheila Yoshikawa: Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual we will be in text chat for the whole session.

Sheila Yoshikawa: So I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK and I am lead organiser for VWER

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Selby Evans, DFW, Blogger,

MUVE (virtual world) weekly update 11/29/2018
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/11/2018-muves-muve-virtual-world-weekly_29.html
**
3DWebWorldz offers 3D spaces on the browser, seeks support via Patreon for further development
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/11/2018-ww-3dwebworldz-offers-3d-spaces-on.html
**
Thinkerer roast, 89th birthday: how to live to be an antique
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/11/2018-video-comedy-thinkerer-roast-89th.html
**
A collaborative blog is social media if you use it that way
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/11/2018-people-collaborative-blog-is.html
*****************
SceneGate: updating the strawman model for education
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/01/edu-ima-ww-scenegate-updating-straw-man.html
**
Kitely will offer private grids with dedicated login pages
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/07/2018-edu-biz-kitely-will-offer-private.html
Beth Ghostraven: I’m Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire, classic clothing for educators in SL (http://bethghostraven.com); Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference; Communications Chair and Focus Sessions Producer for the ISTE Virtual Environments Network; and unofficial liaison between education groups in SL. For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at http://venetwork.weebly.com/calendar.html; Twitter: @booklady9 I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript and recording this session on video; if you have any objection, please IM me.

Beth Ghostraven: Happy Birthday, Selby!

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): ty. Beth

Scot Jung: I’m a professor of educational leadership at George Fox University, in Oregon, USA

Sheila Yoshikawa: Oh, just saw that 89th birthday video, Selby! Congratulations ;-)))

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Scot, Robin Ashford used to be in SL a lot, back in the day, do you know her? She’s a librarian at George Fox University

Scot Jung: yes

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): The educational relevance of the video is that we could do the same thing about education.

Scot Jung: Robin and I work together some and she and I co-taught here in sl a number of years ago

Sheila Yoshikawa: I knew her fairly well when she was teaching and being a librarian in here

Scot Jung: Robin is great, quite an asset!

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Hi Alex

Beth Ghostraven: Hi Alex, welcome to VWER

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby, the same thing in which way?

Alex Bonham (Alexandre100233 Bonham): hello

Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello Alex

Sheila Yoshikawa: In fact I think we finished introductions and now it’s up for anyone to suggest a topic or question for discussion

Sheila Yoshikawa: although we may have started, with selby

Sheila Yoshikawa: talking about his video

Sheila Yoshikawa: or rather me asking about it

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): How about a roast of the traditional education system, where we explain that having people sit in a classroom and take notes is great preparation/practice for life

Beth Ghostraven: lol Selby

Beth Ghostraven: the Monty Python approach to education

Beth Ghostraven: I think it’s a great idea!

Scot Jung: “bring out your dead”

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): yes — and I can make the video

Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s an ex-educator

Beth Ghostraven: like that spoof video that shows teacher hiring as if it were the NFL draft

Josain Zsun: It wasn’t?

Sheila Yoshikawa: the peril is someone stumbling across it and thinking it’s for real

Sheila Yoshikawa: or those people with no sense of humour

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): several presentations or skits of about 7 minutes each

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Josain

Beth Ghostraven: Selby, I think something that long would lose people’s attention

Josain Zsun remembering the cattle calls in Tucson…

Sheila Yoshikawa: so just a few minutes?

Beth Ghostraven: I tend to drift off after 2 or 3 minutes of a video

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We have it clearly labeled as comedy in case a dean see it

Sheila Yoshikawa: we don’t want it labeled as misinformation!

Scot Jung: hey, I was a dean, and I would appreciate it!

Beth Ghostraven: then again, I’m very easily distracted

Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Comedy holds attention better than lecture

Beth Ghostraven: very true

Beth Ghostraven: almost anything does

Scot Jung: the question is, why does the lecture prevail?

Sheila Yoshikawa: As an alternative to people in SL dancing, though I myself am guilty of posting a couple of videos of educators dancing in SL to Youtube

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Once you hear a lecture about swimming, you never forget what you learned about lectures.

Beth Ghostraven: haha Selby

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Scot it is an “efficient” way to reach a large number of people at the same time, it takes less time to prepare than more thoughtful and engaged teaching, and universities have a load of large lecture rooms it is difficult to use for anything else

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby lol

Beth Ghostraven: Scot, excellent question–maybe lecture is the pedantic version of storytelling?

Beth Ghostraven: but Sheila, it’s not efficient if it’s not effective

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): And profs already have the lectures prepared

Scot Jung: I learned from great lecturers in the past, there is a place

Scot Jung: for me the key question is: who is responsible for learning?

Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes I think there is still a place for someone talking in an interesting way about something they care about

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think actually the learner has the ultimate responsibility for learning, to be honest

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There is a place for great lectures, yes. On video or audio files.

Sheila Yoshikawa: but I see my responsibility to facilitate and scaffold learning and challenge learners too

Scot Jung: I think lecture persists because we have students who don’t want to be responsible for learning what is offered

Sheila Yoshikawa: I see it as my responsibility to create the conditions for learning

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There is that, Scott
Scot Jung: and educators who offer what is not wanted

Sheila Yoshikawa: though it is mixed, there are a lot of educators who are doing more than lectures and learners who do take responsibility for learning, but it’s not 100% with either…..

Sheila Yoshikawa: also you said Beth “but Sheila, it’s not efficient if it’s not effective”

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I taught a class in research design and some students complained that I was not presenting material that would be on the test.

Josain Zsun: There were a couple of rare, dynamic teachers and professors that I loved to attend

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby yes you get that sort of thing

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Josain what subject was it you were studying?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I told them the test would call on them to show their skills in evaluating research designs, not memorize what was in the book or a lecture.

Josain Zsun: They were different subjects…and probably could have been any topic.

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Josain

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby yes that is the sort of topic where it is pointless to try and memorise, that won’t help you apply what you’ve learnt….

Josain Zsun: RL calls…Best of the Season All

Beth Ghostraven: take care, Josain!

Beth Ghostraven: Hi Fuzz!

Sheila Yoshikawa: Our research methods class for our Masters students is taught almost entirely through big lectures, this year we have nearly 500 students taking it, most of them international (particularly Chinese) so that is challenging…..

Scot Jung: Here is an interesting scenario, on a course evaluation of a friend of mine who taught physics to pre-med students, he took a constructivist approach and on the course evaluation he got ripped apart because the students told him he made them do all the work, a favorite quote was, “I learned a lot in this class, but you did not teach me anything”

Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello Fuzz, always nice to see you!

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): lol, scott

Sheila Yoshikawa: OMG Scot

Sheila Yoshikawa: that really is depressing

Fuzz Difference: o/

Scot Jung: I thought learning was the goal, anyway

Scot Jung: not teaching

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that’s the most depressing of all when it’s perceived as NOT being about learning

Sheila Yoshikawa: If it’s not about learning, perhaps we should just forget it all and sell people instant qualifications

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think some years ago there was a student here who was in a focus group about the teaching and learning who said “I didn’t come here to learn, I came to get a degree”

Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, that’s sad

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes

Scot Jung: @Sheila, I think we are getting to the instant qualifications thing

Scot Jung: and maybe in some skill areas that is okay, but sounds not training and not education to me

Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m not totally unrealistic, and people have different pressures and goals, but learning, going to university and learning changed my life

Scot Jung: like training, sorry

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Many students view education as passing tests, not developing life skills. Many schools present it that way.

Scot Jung: ]agreed, Selby

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes one issue in the UK is that people are being channelled into university when perhaps they might gain more by going another route

Sheila Yoshikawa: but parents, teachers etc say “you’ve got to get a degree qualification”

Beth Ghostraven: I think that’s happening a lot in the US too–“everyone should take algebra and go to college!”

Scot Jung: that is breaking down here in the US

Sheila Yoshikawa: ;-(

Beth Ghostraven: Here’s something I wonder about a lot: Are people, as a whole, getting dumber?

Scot Jung: basic intelligence, no

Scot Jung: fully formed and capable humans, hmm?

Sheila Yoshikawa: well, the grades people are getting at various educational levels in the UK are going UP, ahem

Sheila Yoshikawa: there is discussion around whether it’s people getting brighter or grade inflation

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that there seems to be as much peer pressure not to appear too bright as there ever was?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): How do you turn a C student into a B student? Admit him to graduate school.

Beth Ghostraven: lol

Sheila Yoshikawa: and not necessarily being encouraged to work at being able to concentrate on things, or persist with hard concepts?

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Selby

Sheila Yoshikawa: I don’t think people are getting more stupid, but I don’t think the education system and society are encouraging people as they could to work at challenging ideas, expanding ideas? Or this could be age speaking

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): It is possible to make multiple choice questions that test thinking, but easier to make those for memory of facts.

Sheila Yoshikawa: nods

Scot Jung: Here is a factoid from my newsfeed yesterday, the average ug does 14 hours out of class work per week compared to 24 20 some years ago

Beth Ghostraven: ug?

Sheila Yoshikawa: what was the research for that?

Scot Jung: undergrad

Beth Ghostraven: oh undergrad! lol

Sheila Yoshikawa: undergraduate

Scot Jung: I will try to find it

Scot Jung: and post it before we go

Beth Ghostraven: imagining cave people

Sheila Yoshikawa: So here, I think there are more students having to take jobs, also more peer pressure to spend time drinking and clubbing (in the UK the limit is 18 for drinking, I think you have to be older in USA?)

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Beth

Scot Jung: 21 in US

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I don’t think people are getting dumber, I think life is requiring smarter people

Sheila Yoshikawa: having to cope with more forms of communication

Sheila Yoshikawa: and smarter in other ways Selby?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): there is no job for Job for John Henry

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): People need to learn how to learn

Sheila Yoshikawa: and for that – they need information literacy

Sheila Yoshikawa: had to get that in

Beth Ghostraven: yes

Sheila Yoshikawa: BTW is there another topic anyone wanted to raise?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): What you learned in school is not good for a job 20 years later

Scot Jung: what about kindness, collaboration, empathy, problem solving

Scot Jung: those seem to be sustainable throughout one’s life

Sheila Yoshikawa: they are certainly what you want in co-workers and managers!

Sheila Yoshikawa: and indeed students and customers

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): There could be big news coming from OpenSim by the time we get to OSCC

Sheila Yoshikawa: do as you would be done by

Beth Ghostraven: As far as I know, Rhiannon Chatnoir will be here next week to talk about OSCC

Scot Jung: tell more about OSCC please

Sheila Yoshikawa: I don’t know anything much about it

Sheila Yoshikawa: Beth or Selby?

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): not just OSCC –just by that time; See this https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/07/2018-edu-biz-kitely-will-offer-private.html

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Schools can have their own grids

Scot Jung: thanks, I will check it out

Scot Jung: one other question

Scot Jung: or topic

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): under their own management. They won’t have to let grid managers screw things up — they can do it better!!

Scot Jung: what topic has drawn the largest gathering to this roundtable in the last year?

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think it was the sessions that were part of the VWMOOC

Sheila Yoshikawa: possibly the talks from Mark? Gann McGann

Scot Jung: I’m curious what educators are passionate about and interested in

Sheila Yoshikawa: and the one on using Minecraft

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I think VWMOOC too

Sheila Yoshikawa: I would ask if any of you have suggestions for discussion topics, or people to be interviewed, next year? we are always open to suggestion!

Scot Jung: I have a project i am working on that I need help on

Sheila Yoshikawa: also the panel session with Heike Philps, Marly and Kali

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes basically the VWMOOC ones, as there was an additional audience

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): Let’s work with Scot on his project

Sheila Yoshikawa: how could we help, Scot?

Scot Jung: thanks for all of that

Scot Jung: I will give you the one minute speech

Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉

Scot Jung: and then, if you think worthy, more on the time you pick

Scot Jung: I am trying to build a simulation here for decision making and fostering empathy

Scot Jung: for educators and others

Sheila Yoshikawa: exciting!

Scot Jung: based on a board game we developed for f2f

Scot Jung: I need some beta testers

Scot Jung: it would require a field trip to the sim

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I am available.

Beth Ghostraven: I think that sounds really interesting

Scot Jung: i have had my own students visit, but they do not know sl

Scot Jung: and we spent most the time teaching them how to move and communicate

Scot Jung: i need some people who are fluent in the medium

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We do field trips at VWER

Scot Jung: to become familiar with the game and then suggest how to make it work

Sheila Yoshikawa: when do you need it done

Scot Jung: end of Jan to end of Feb

Scot Jung: somwhere in that time frame

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): We can do that — Just not Dec

Scot Jung: no

Scot Jung: not good for me either

Sheila Yoshikawa: would you like us to make it a VWER session?

Scot Jung: if you are willing

Sheila Yoshikawa: for example we could do the 3rd Thursday in Jan

Scot Jung: i can give some background material to organizers

Sheila Yoshikawa: or the fitrst thurs in February

ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville): I would hope to do an article on that if possible, Scott

Beth Ghostraven: Scot, if you’d also like to do an ISTE VEN Focus Session on it, we could do that on Tuesday February 19 @ 5 pm SLT

Scot Jung: let me check calendar on all of those

Scot Jung: thank you for your offers to help

ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): 1 min

Sheila Yoshikawa: Great I will put that in for 7th Feb – what would be the title “Testing a decision making & empathy game”?

Beth Ghostraven: Scot, I’ll put you on the calendar and we can talk more later

Scot Jung: Sheila, that will work

Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks Selby

Scot Jung: \and beth, thank you

Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes that is it for this week

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