May 21, 2020: Mark Childs on “Choose Your Reality”

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: May 21, 2020

Topic: Mark Childs on “Choose Your Reality”
Photos by Beth Ghostraven

The session will be led by Gann McGann (Mark Childs outside Second Life) and will be in voice (with transcription) and text chat

Virtual reality, virtual worlds, videoconferencing, text conferencing, the physical world. They all have their pros and cons, what do we think they are, and can we improve on them?

Over the past few months, the Rumpus research group at the Institute of Educational Research has been having their meetings in a variety of different environments, including a creative suite in Milton Keynes, the OU island in Second Life, Engage on the Oculus Quest, Teams, Zoom, and Adobe Connect. A recent blog post discusses some of these experiences, with a focus on are they fun?

In this seminar we’ll continue this exploration. We’ll be talking about our experiences of different platforms in terms of

  • Accessibility/cost (can we get to it)
  • Usability (how easy to use is it once we’re there)
  • Fun v. awkwardness
  • Security/privacy
  • Engagement/immersiveness

For each of the five types of platforms listed above we’ll be asking. What are your experiences? How would you rank it on a scale of 1 to 5? Are there any more categories? Are there any more realities? If there’s time, we’ll end on a discussion of how we might actually synthesise these to create something better.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds. This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript in due course. The transcripts can be found at The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world. Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook please join our group there
Sheila Yoshikawa: The topic for this week’s meeting will be: Choose your reality. After the usual introductions in text chat I will hand over to Gann McGann to lead the session. Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual just type into text chat all at once, as much or as little as you want!
Wisdomseeker (lissena): is owner of Inspiration Island, CEO of Whole Brain Health – 501c3 Ageless Mind Project. FB: Virtual Inspiration Island; website: Board Member: Secretary – Nonprofit Commons in SL
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Selby Evans, DFW, Blogger
Meeting remotely in a digital place: CybaLOUNGE. Remote collaboration without the hassle.
Breadwinner thinking. Project-based learning. Growth-oriented learning. Goal-directed learning. The future of work is online.
The DTA can encourage good time-management habits
Draft plan for teaching elements of digital citizenship: How to become a digital guard. Game elements for digital self-defense. Sure you can improve it.
OpenSim Traveller badge: Knowledge base. What you need to know to be a world traveller in SceneGate. Travelling the Hypergrid.
Museums on your lap. Going places in your laptop. An online presence extends the reach of a museum and gives new meaning to the idea of a field trip.
International, multicultural college MOOC in Kitely: Jews/Arabs/secular/religious students work together in classes
Su Nacht: Su Nacht=Susanna Nocchi. Lead Tutor for Italian at Technological University Dublin. XR enthusiast and researcher in the use of immersive environments for foreign language teaching and learning.
Gann McGann: OK I’m Mark Childs, I’m a lecturer in TEL at the Institute of Educational Technology, at the Open University
Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK. I am lead organiser of VWER and I own this island
Beth Ghostraven: I’m Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; owner of Ghostraven Professional Attire, classic clothing for educators in SL; Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference; Communications Chair and Focus Sessions Producer for the ISTE Virtual Environments Network; and unofficial liaison between education groups in SL. For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at
I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript; if you have any objection, please IM me.
Gann McGann: and it looks like my trousers haven’t rezzed
LunaRaptor: Masters student and part time lecturer at University of Pretoria.
Max Chatnoir: Max Chatnoir, AKA Mary Anne Clark. Texas Wesleyan University. I teach biology, and have one course that I do here on Genome Island, which I also manage.
Valibrarian Gregg: Valerie Hill, Director Community Virtual Library,
Sheila Yoshikawa: well, you appear decently covered @Gann
Su Nacht tries to avoid looking at Gann
Sheila Yoshikawa: has it spontaneously generated a new “pants” layer over your existing one? It does that sometimes
Gann McGann: oh good
Widget Whiteberry: For 5 or so years, I produced two interview programs in SL. Virtually Speaking with authors on a wide variety of policy issues and, in cooperation with MICA (CalTech, NASA eEducation and the Exploratorium) Virtually Speaking Science
Sheila Yoshikawa: good to start a session with a debate about whether or not the speaker has his trousers on
Gann McGann: i love the Exploratorium
Gann McGann: haha @sheila
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): is this session text chat only or on voice too?
Sheila Yoshikawa: There will be some voice from Gann, but there will be transcription
Sheila Yoshikawa: there will be mainly text chat for further discussion
Sheila Yoshikawa: this group is sensitive to the needs of those who prefer text chat
Sheila Yoshikawa: OK! Gann! Over to you! I leave you to introduce yourself!
Sheila Yoshikawa: Gann says hello
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): hearing
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Late introduction: Heike Philp in RL, Gwen Gwasi in SL, sim owner and conference organizer, head of livestreaming team at VWBPE, co-initiator of 3 EU funded projects in SL on language learning
Beth Ghostraven: Shailey, hello!!!
Sheila Yoshikawa: I will do some transcription
Sheila Yoshikawa: He works at the Open University, 51 years old
Sheila Yoshikawa: The OU, not him
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): RL Henry-Cameron Allen, Life Skills Ambassador, Educator, Mentor & Podcaster: The Lost Traveler Also founding director of The Lost Travelers Club, a nonprofit travel group for parents who have outlived their children. I recently established the Lost Travelers Club in NPC Aloft Nonprofit Commons (221,33,22)
Gann McGann: i’m 56
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): I’m 54. 🙂
Gann McGann: so slightly older than the OU
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Sheila Yoshikawa: There is a notecard in this box – it has the link to the project that Gann is talking about
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Thank you for the card 🙂
Gann McGann: so the Rumpus research looking at fun in adult and children’s learning
Sheila Yoshikawa: he’s looked at the different experiences in different environment
Sheila Yoshikawa: so people here have used the physical world and SL
Sheila Yoshikawa: and possibly others
Beth Ghostraven: Rumpus research group:
Sheila Yoshikawa: so he’s going to ask us to compare
Gann McGann:

  • Accessibility/cost (how easily can we get to it)
  • Usability (how easy to use is it once we’re there) – communication – navigation – creation
  • Fun v. awkwardness
  • Security/privacy
  • Engagement/immersiveness
    And any other categories??
    Sheila Yoshikawa: these are different categories they’ve identified
    Sheila Yoshikawa: so they can compare environments
    Sheila Yoshikawa: those are also listed in the notecard
    Marly (marly.milena): Has learning or insight taken place?
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Other virtual worlds — Web worlds are easiest access
    Gann McGann: @marly only so far my direct experiences
    TheScrupulousDevil: a lot of people missing commitment to stay in the environment
    Sheila Yoshikawa: Gann asks for other criteria for judging these environments
    TheScrupulousDevil: there needs to be allure
    Su Nacht: Possibility to modify your avatar
    Widget Whiteberry: What is the place of built environments that mimic the solid world buildings
    TheScrupulousDevil: something other than that that keeps them coming back
    TheScrupulousDevil: so the class size and community can grow
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Drop by my web offices Weekdays: 12:-12:30 pm Central time (US)
    I am available for free consulting on any topic in this blog.
    Cybalounge and 3DWebWorldz (Orientation room)
    I will be in both places, so you may need to speak to get my attention.
    Web-worlds, 3D virtual worlds running in a browser. Summary
    And we can visit the Writer’s Workshop on the Web
    Don’t register — enter as guest.
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): you can try that out now
    Jean Zee (cmpz): Restrictions: Learning often happens by overcoming restrictions, such as a problem statement or limitations on the kind of solution.
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): a category I would add is: how easy is it to customize one’s avatar
    Gann McGann: this is work i’ve just started to get off the ground – with lockdown there have been fewer people to play with – this is my third bout of exploration
    Sheila Yoshikawa: one to do with – does it connect with my existing social networks?
    Su Nacht: HEIKE: great minds 🙂
    Gann McGann: ok – so interoperability
    Valibrarian Gregg: Criteria might include: ability to produce content (productivity, building, importing), ability to chat or IM
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Warmth, inclusivity and mentorship
    Gann McGann: ok – so the degree of functionality
    Sheila Yoshikawa: Agree that for some people (e.g. me) customisability of avatar is v important
    Gann McGann: ah – so the community already in there
    Valibrarian Gregg: Sustainability
    Gann McGann: in what way valibrarian
    Su Nacht: It is not just for some people, it can become a great learning ‘tool’
    Max Chatnoir: cost?
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Networking opportunities
    Gann McGann: ? like an ecological green thing
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Open sim — can be text and voice connected to other social sources such as Discord
    Valibrarian Gregg: as in- building a space together that is still there- not a “one time disposable experience”
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): true, Su, you had the same thought earlier, hehe
    Sheila Yoshikawa: sustainability is certainly something that universities have started emphasising
    Gann McGann: yep – cost is key, i included that in accessibility, maybe it should be pulled out into a separate category.
    Valibrarian Gregg: Sustainable learning communities and spaces
    Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby would your point be the same as interoperability?
    Gann McGann: aahhh – so yeah two meanings, will it last and will it kill the planet
    Valibrarian Gregg: Comfort within the space (not a feeling of being trapped inside a small area)- SL goes on and on and on
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I would add another criteria if I may: different language group and different cultural experiences / people of different nationalities …
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Open Sim and web-worlds cost much less than SL
    Gann McGann: inclusivity
    Su Nacht: Also, avatar customisation can be useful for work on self, on bias etc …
    Beth Ghostraven: Val, do you mean persistent? as in, the VW continues whether there is anyone logged in or not?
    Sheila Yoshikawa ponders Life as a “one time disposable experience” @Val
    Beth Ghostraven: haha Sheila yes
    Gann McGann: ok those are all really useful.
    Su Nacht: I agree Heike
    Valibrarian Gregg: persistence- yes but also sustainable for communities long-term
    Beth Ghostraven: but Sheila, it’s SO immersive! :p
    Sheila Yoshikawa: @Val @Beth – bounded versus a feeling of boundless space?
    TheScrupulousDevil: What kind of community are you all looking for? Universities? Sorry a bit late to this discussion just wanna be sure as you ask us to respond
    Su Nacht: which one was it? Accessibility cost?
    Gann McGann: Second Life Accessibility/cost (how easily can we get to it)
    Su Nacht: I find SL accessible. I have been teaching here with no cost whatsoever
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Not sure if everyone knows about this..but if not…50% discount to educators in SL
    Su Nacht: I didn’t know!
    Sheila Yoshikawa: yes please type in folks – how accessible is SL including cost
    TheScrupulousDevil: very
    Gann McGann: how easy is SL for people, in your experience to get into and get used to
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Well, I’m glad I shared 🙂
    TheScrupulousDevil: you can find a friend to get u a freebie
    TheScrupulousDevil: you can find a free place to sit in like a sandbox
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I find it sad that SL is adult only, teenagers below 16 can’t join
    Sheila Yoshikawa: I would say fairly difficult to access
    TheScrupulousDevil: Building a community here is quite easy
    Max Chatnoir: free for users. server costs for builders.
    Windy Schor: I might be going to Tyto Online for younger students.
    Gann McGann: i think there’s a steep learning curve but if you’re motivated it’s not a barrier
    Maggie Larimore: and land managers quite a lot of cost sometimes
    Briony (brionyblack): it takes some time for newbies to learn to use SL efficiently.
    TheScrupulousDevil: : you can find a free place to sit in like a sandbox….
    Maggie Larimore: somebody pays tier for everything we do
    Sheila Yoshikawa: difficult in terms of tech requirements, also for the visually disabled
    TheScrupulousDevil: You can also use a friend’s land….
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Builders and SimOwners pay too much as far as I am concerned, users should also carry the heavy costs of SL
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): SL is said to have a steep learning curve– the real world has a much steeper curve, but we have already been through it.
    Su Nacht: @Gann, I think the learning curve is less ‘steep’ now. Students seem to find it easier
    Sheila Yoshikawa: as an individual avatar it can be free, you can do a lot for free
    Gann McGann: that’s a good point
    Su Nacht: Still, it hasn’t changed
    Briony (brionyblack): yes but we take years to get through the RL learning curve.
    TheScrupulousDevil: why not a community for free?
    Su Nacht: I guess our students have
    TheScrupulousDevil: I’ve done it before
    Gann McGann: @su oh cool what’s changed about the students then
    TheScrupulousDevil: the only setup cost is the group, basically
    Maggie Larimore: I agree Heiki, and education discount doesn’t apply to individual teachers, does it?
    Marly (marly.milena): These responses cannot be monolithic. Accessibility may be a snap for people with tech expertise and a hard thing for technophobes
    TheScrupulousDevil: maybe some textures if need be
    Maggie Larimore: so OS is much more affordable month over month
    Sheila Yoshikawa: I think the tech barrier is worse than the getting in barrier
    Shiloh Emmons: [won’t admit I was stuck on Orientation Island for 5 months back in 2007…]
    TheScrupulousDevil: 😛
    Gann McGann: hah
    Sheila Yoshikawa: if you have a good tech setup you can bumble round and work it out
    Windy Schor: I only see downloading bulky and needy software, the exposure to too much libido, and the age limit, in that order, as hurdles to meeting my clients–teachers–into SL
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): well, and we sim owners are community builders – so why do we have to suffer most?, we build, we pay, we run events…
    TheScrupulousDevil: I don’t suffer
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I agree with Shiloh, the viewers are complicated at first.
    Gann McGann: yeah tech limitations much less now
    TheScrupulousDevil: I am a sim owner
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): this is why so few are doing it because the responsibilities are great
    Sheila Yoshikawa wonders if Shiloh notices she admitted it
    Suemoon Magic: At first educators coming in were older folks who had not grown up playing online games. Now people grow up playing games online so this doesn’t look so hard.
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Tech barrier is a huge limitation.
    Beth Ghostraven: Hi David!
    Sheila Yoshikawa: @Heike yes and we enjoy the pain lol
    Sheila Yoshikawa: of course
    Gann McGann: ok, what about the physical world – what are the limitations with accessibility there?
    Maggie Larimore: so true Heiki
    Max Chatnoir: Parking!
    Gann McGann: so for instance – meeting up
    TheScrupulousDevil: I have a WONDERFUL time with my sim, not suffering, have a huge community already it’s only been open for two months almost three now. Have a stable flow of people coming in. It costs a lot but really I am paying less than most people are on here
    Gann McGann: @max yeah
    TheScrupulousDevil: There are ways around problems almost every time in this game
    David Burden (corro.moseley): hiya
    Gann McGann: i mention that in my post
    TheScrupulousDevil: problems like that
    Maggie Larimore: ah, that’s why I’m online 🙂 the physical is even more expensive
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): RL limitation – quarantine.
    Gann McGann: yup
    Sheila Yoshikawa: @Su not sure it has to do with age – I was a lot older than my students, some of them were gamers, but some of them took longer to get the hang of it
    Max Chatnoir: Yes right now, public gatherings are quite difficult.
    Gann McGann: cost too – it’s expensive getting around
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Well quarantine has helped me to be on more 🙂
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Phys world — travel costs, travel time. travel risks
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Me too.
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I’m home…not traveling
    TheScrupulousDevil: I’m confused lol
    TheScrupulousDevil: is anyone reading the chat?
    TheScrupulousDevil: like completely and fully
    Briony (brionyblack): yes
    TheScrupulousDevil: odd
    Sheila Yoshikawa: The physical world is expensive and has a really steep learning curve
    Briony (brionyblack): no time to write though!
    Gann McGann: yes it does
    TheScrupulousDevil: I was trying to let you all know it’s really not a money thing that’s your problem on here
    TheScrupulousDevil: if you need to make a community or education center
    Gann McGann: i’m still struggling with some things
    TheScrupulousDevil: The main struggle is the people
    Valibrarian Gregg: Young kids using Minecraft would have no trouble with SL. They are ripe and ready. They will easily switch between the physical and the virtual worlds (I hope) in the future.
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I am reading the chat and have chat lag when replying, Scrupulous, haha
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): What would you say is a problem SD?
    Su Nacht: @Sheila, I didn’t mean age. My students were the same age as the students this year, but had many more problems about 8 yrs ago. Not sure why
    Maggie Larimore: well when you are paying tier Scrupulous it can be about the money
    Shailey Garfield: Being zoomed out, the physical world has taken a new deep meaning and significance.
    Gann McGann: and running physical spaces is expensive
    TheScrupulousDevil: why not build a stable enough community that they appreciate it enough to donate the amount or near to it?
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Also international time zones are a challenge in both SL and RL.
    TheScrupulousDevil: not saying you can’t or haven’t, just saying it is possible
    TheScrupulousDevil: many many sim owners out here doing it
    Briony (brionyblack): time zones: Nods
    TheScrupulousDevil: I know some owners who have their whole sims paid off before the end of the month
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Students are more tech savvy now
    TheScrupulousDevil: just from donations
    Marly (marly.milena): It was much easier for me to find administrative and tech help in SL than in the physical world
    Gann McGann: ok who here has tried VR?
    Sheila Yoshikawa: @Scrupulous says “The main struggle is the people” and need to build a community…. is that just in SL or also the physical world?
    Sheila Yoshikawa: Interesting @Marly
    Maggie Larimore: that’s funny SD lots of people donate, but often it’s difficult to get that level of donations, seen that happen on other people’s sims
    David Burden (corro.moseley): Oculus Quest has been a real game changer
    Widget Whiteberry: TOPIC: VIRTUAL REALITY
    Suemoon Magic: The gear is expensive
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I have been having residents who helped pay the tiers but then we lost many due to a griefer… so how about the pain??? Sheila?
    Su Nacht: I have tried VR, conducting a study now
    Valibrarian Gregg: I have an Oculus Rift. Have been to several platforms. So far- I find SL much more advantageous for learning
    Shailey Garfield: VR- not very expensive if it is 360 degree videos/photospheres
    Su Nacht: Much MUCH more expensive (Google Cardboard isn’t great)
    TheScrupulousDevil: Even more so IRL sheila
    TheScrupulousDevil: A lot of people don’
    TheScrupulousDevil: whoops
    Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I have had a Rift for 2 years
    David Burden (corro.moseley): easy to use, good user experience, not as high rez but far more usable
    Gann McGann: yeah the quest is expensive but just in the range of affordable
    Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Learning curve regarding VR. Still new frontier for most people and often cost-restrictive.
    Gann McGann: @david – more usable in what way?
    Sheila Yoshikawa: I have tried VR a few times at expos and conferences – I haven’t seen the cost as prohibitive, but the fact it was special equipment (rather than just a laptop/pc) probably did put me off
    Shailey Garfield: VR – expensive if you are going in for 3D virtual worlds or using Unity 3D engines. But RoI can be very good, if planned properly.
    Su Nacht: I can’t ask my students to buy a ‘proper’ VR headgear
    Valibrarian Gregg: Many of the events I have attended did not need to be in VR- could have simply been a video.
    ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): By VR do you mean stereo viewing?
    ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I work with first time users, the new residents, and most think this is a game, like the other games they “play”. When I tell them, no there are no quests, no you don’t “level” and no, there is no “top position as King” you need to beat….sometimes we lose them. 😦
    David Burden (corro.moseley): just spent 2.5 hrs in Quest for a virtual webinar, not bad – although the event would have been better in SL
    Gann McGann: yep I’ve been using Engage,
    Sheila Yoshikawa: It didn’t seem to have a high learning curve for using individual programmes in VR
    Gann McGann: you can read my impression on the blog
    David Burden (corro.moseley): yes, that was in Engage, probably the best of rht bunch
    Windy Schor: Obvious diff VR<>SL: using on a phone vs using on a computer. Accessible to people with phones vs people with a computer. Need to grapple with this obvious.
    Gann McGann: it’s early stages so far

Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): The other day we examined various VR worlds in a workshop and I couldn’t use my Rift in any of them … only quest, only Go, many allow desktop…
Gann McGann: @david -we should chat
David Burden (corro.moseley): some nice things in AltSpaceVR though – like being able to create 3D “enclosures”, you’re own apps inside it
Windy Schor: What VR allows interactive scripting like here.
Sheila Yoshikawa: IT’S BEHIND YOU!
Sheila Yoshikawa: that’s a British pantomime joke
TheScrupulousDevil: A lot of people don’t realize how EASY EASY EASY it is to get a group of people together in this place. It is one of the last bastions of doing something like that really, and it isn’t ANYTHING about money it never really is on here, because you could damn well have an education session in a sandbox and there would be ones willing to let you do that and overtime you could move up ya kno, that’s what i did. I began just bringing friends over to prob a little 512, now I own a sim, and have an entire community that I build for and host discussions and such for and with. The money is what comes last. It’s the people, getting people to listen and consider and willing to discuss. There’s a lot of people who would rather live in fantasy and never use the platform for anything actually good, for themselves.
Su Nacht: LOVE the opinionator 😉 being opinionated myself 🙂

Valibrarian Gregg: I am going to present in AltspaceVR soon. Will strive not to bash the platform 😉
David Burden (corro.moseley): AltSpaceVR through enclosures using a variant of WbGL
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hello if you come over here!
TheScrupulousDevil: 10
TheScrupulousDevil: 10,000
TheScrupulousDevil: it’s incredible
TheScrupulousDevil: nothing else like it
TheScrupulousDevil: 10
TheScrupulousDevil: if I could
TheScrupulousDevil: 10,000
Maggie Larimore: what 1 and what’s 5? which is easiest?
TheScrupulousDevil: 5 you need help from one person
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): for myself
Sheila Yoshikawa: SO rank Second Life on accessibility on a scale of 1-5
Widget Whiteberry: how we felt when we joined. How easy it WAS
Windy Schor: The people in 1 keep bonking into each other!
TheScrupulousDevil: 5 if 5 is easiest
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: rank Second Life on accessibility on a scale of 1-5
TheScrupulousDevil: I say 10 or 10k cause it’s that easy and that accessible
Widget Whiteberry: which is hardest?
Suemoon Magic: It is easier now than it was back in the day when I started
Su Nacht: No one on 1????
TheScrupulousDevil: wait–is 1 hard or 5 easy?
Maggie Larimore: that’s true Suemoon!
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: 1 is easy
TheScrupulousDevil: Lol ty
Widget Whiteberry: it’s much easier now
Su Nacht: 1 is easy
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
TheScrupulousDevil: musical chairs
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: lol no the reverse – 5 is easy
Su Nacht: Well … so I’m fine anyway 😀
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: very difficult is 1
TheScrupulousDevil: schweet
Widget Whiteberry: You keep talking in present tense, but asking about the past
TheScrupulousDevil: god yeah it was WORSE back than
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
Su Nacht teacher’s pets are in 5 😉
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): It is
TheScrupulousDevil: I don’t
TheScrupulousDevil: I remember how hard it was
TheScrupulousDevil: no
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Other virtual worlds — Web world was easy for me, but I an half-geek
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Yes it is
Suemoon Magic: Avatar are easier to get now
TheScrupulousDevil: more willing to help now and days to honestly
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: when you first go in NOW. how accessible is it- very difficult is 1
TheScrupulousDevil: the teachers are returning
TheScrupulousDevil: somewhat
TheScrupulousDevil: hmmm
TheScrupulousDevil: that would be a good idea
TheScrupulousDevil: writes note
Windy Schor: Thanks Sheila for bringing this awesome dataviz
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Yes, I help them, but it is still hard for them.
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Sometimes the language barrier is a problem.
TheScrupulousDevil shouts: ja
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Yes, I am a guide for the New residents.
TheScrupulousDevil shouts: we NEED mentors in sl
TheScrupulousDevil: NEED NEED NEED
Wisdomseeker (lissena): Linden Labs has mentors at their gateways
Widget Whiteberry: `Also, how much prior experience and of what sorts
TheScrupulousDevil shouts: not anymore that are helpful wisdom
TheScrupulousDevil shouts: pretty certain
Su Nacht: As I wrote earlier, I notice that people seem to have less issues/problems to get used to it now, compared to when I used to teach them about 8 yrs ago.
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): The Lindens and Firestorm provide Helpers now. 🙂
TheScrupulousDevil: if so that’d be something realllll new
Wisdomseeker (lissena): The Silver Tigers
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): But still it is hard.
TheScrupulousDevil: like months new
TheScrupulousDevil: ooo nice
TheScrupulousDevil: they are new than
TheScrupulousDevil: excellent
TheScrupulousDevil: I’ll have to test them c;
Wisdomseeker (lissena): no–they have been doing it a long time
Sheila Yoshikawa: A couple of people have said it is easier now than earlier, to start
Wisdomseeker (lissena): and are international
Su Nacht: It’s not as easy as it used to, true Heike.
TheScrupulousDevil: hmmmm odd
Marly (marly.milena): But I do not have mesh! I stay with the easier more creative prims
TheScrupulousDevil: I never saw them
Sheila Yoshikawa: but changing your avatar is more difficult |(I agree) because of mesh clothes
TheScrupulousDevil: I go to the areas a LOT
David Burden (corro.moseley): interesting that the current generation of SVR has no real onboarding – but they have limited scope/agency whereas SL almost unlimited
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): That’s my story. Much easier now.
Widget Whiteberry: the meetings we typically go to?
Valibrarian Gregg: Conferences are really expensive!!
Valibrarian Gregg: but not expensive in SL
Widget Whiteberry: now it’s zoom
Wisdomseeker (lissena): we can’t get to them now!
Max Chatnoir: I had to walk once from a train stop, about a mile, carrying my luggage.
Marly (marly.milena): Again, it depends on whether you go to local places, repetitive venues, or have to go to an unknown city or venue
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): for me way too hard (now) — I won’t go
David Burden (corro.moseley): Mind you given route finding on some University campuses!
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): lol yes Widget
Wisdomseeker (lissena): meetings have other benefits
Su Nacht: @Max, that’s my life 😦
Sheila Yoshikawa: So this is the physical world – but not starting from scratch? e.g. a new student?
TheScrupulousDevil: Physical world is so much
TheScrupulousDevil: YOU BETTER WORK BITCH!
Beth Ghostraven: you can tp there, in your pajamas!
TheScrupulousDevil: lol sorry bind
TheScrupulousDevil: it’s a lot of W O R K
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
TheScrupulousDevil: oh god ja
TheScrupulousDevil: geeezzzzz ja great example
Max Chatnoir: find the building, find the classroom…
Widget Whiteberry: airports
Windy Schor: …Getting dressed…
TheScrupulousDevil: money, transport, (anxiety if any), grades, homework, schedules
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
TheScrupulousDevil: timed this timed that
Beth Ghostraven: even figuring out who to talk to about what is more difficult in the physical world
TheScrupulousDevil: timed timed timed
TheScrupulousDevil: less free
Windy Schor: Almost walked outside today IRL with too much alpha
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): It’s hard to generalise, not taking into consideration disabilities, developing countries, systemic racism, etc.
Sheila Yoshikawa: students completely stressed about finding their way around campus
TheScrupulousDevil: nods
Widget Whiteberry: IMs are a huge advantage
TheScrupulousDevil: directions nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: and around each building even
TheScrupulousDevil: directions in transport and directions in directing you
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
David Burden (corro.moseley): Only just getting to know my way around the OU!
Valibrarian Gregg: Much easier to network here- and you can right click on a profile and take notes!
TheScrupulousDevil: meh
TheScrupulousDevil: it was BAD
TheScrupulousDevil: so far
TheScrupulousDevil: still way too new
TheScrupulousDevil: bulky, clunky, laggy
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): have not tried
Valibrarian Gregg: Found it pretty easy but not comfortable!!!
David Burden (corro.moseley): headset power didn’t last the whole 2.5hr mtg
Widget Whiteberry: tried once, at the exploratorium
TheScrupulousDevil: uh o
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: How accessible was VR when you first used it
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I found VR a pain in the head and had to calibrate my Rift tons of times
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I didn’t like it
TheScrupulousDevil: nods valib lol
TheScrupulousDevil: especially if you have glasses
David Burden (corro.moseley): really miss the 3rd person view, something odd about not being able to see yourself in the world as you can in SL
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Will not suit my uses — too confining
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): then I couldn’t find anybody to play with
TheScrupulousDevil: pretty sure it digs your glasses into your head
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
David Burden (corro.moseley): had to keep taking selfies to check what I looked like
Valibrarian Gregg: I much prefer desktop VR- this is VR too!
Widget Whiteberry: David, yes, that’s very important for me, too
TheScrupulousDevil: You have added – 8+ pounds to the noggin
Su Nacht: Yes Heike, it is still quite lonely
David Burden (corro.moseley): bit like newbs in SL wondering what their avatar is like when they log out
TheScrupulousDevil: “overencumbered” lol
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
Marly (marly.milena): One can do a lot in SL for free (also in physical world) but VR involves a cost
David Burden (corro.moseley): also no real text chat which provides a real 2nd/1st channel in SL
TheScrupulousDevil: omg
TheScrupulousDevil: the bugssss
Valibrarian Gregg: yes Heike- I have had that happen! and once I crashed and the whole world started tumbling around me. That really messed with my head
Widget Whiteberry: Alice in Wonderland
TheScrupulousDevil: PATCHES
TheScrupulousDevil: for a DECADE
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
David Burden (corro.moseley): and the fact that you can’t multi-task in VR which you can in SL, limited to just using the notepad app in EngageVR
Beth Ghostraven: The cost for SL is a good enough computer to access it, and bandwidth
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): haha Valibrarian
TheScrupulousDevil: Patches patches patches
Gann McGann: Usability (how easy to use is it once we’re there) – communication – navigation – creation
TheScrupulousDevil: updates
TheScrupulousDevil: player base
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): is this another ease of use question?
Widget Whiteberry: gets easier and easier
Windy Schor: Camming makes it more usable.
TheScrupulousDevil: nods
David Burden (corro.moseley): the rich multi-channelness – voice, text, interactions, ability to build and script
TheScrupulousDevil: I had to update today
Valibrarian Gregg: SL gives amazing tools for productivity to everyone- not just to developers and owners
TheScrupulousDevil: last night I crashed like 10 times on here
Gann McGann: create objects
Widget Whiteberry: anything I want to learn to do, I can
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): well, I can say that presenting in SL is still a pain in the neck
David Burden (corro.moseley): unleashes creativity more than any other platform
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Lag can be troublesome.
Marly (marly.milena): We can do much more and are often limited by our own imaginations.
Windy Schor: Having measurable wind here makes it usable for me.
Gann McGann: in SL
Widget Whiteberry: David, me too
David Burden (corro.moseley): very little agency in most SVR
TheScrupulousDevil: almost anything can be done here
Sheila Yoshikawa shouts: How usable is SL – rate 1 to 5
TheScrupulousDevil: Nods
TheScrupulousDevil: Oh
TheScrupulousDevil: not rating yet?
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): 2 because of the pain to load slides
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Things that make SL usable: people, typed chat , browser open at the time
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol sorry, being bossy
Wisdomseeker (lissena): 1=very or not very? forgot!
David Burden (corro.moseley): and SL has persistency which none of the others really have – which is what makes it a “real” virtual world
Marly (marly.milena): The main missing ingredient here is tactile
Max Chatnoir: Just using is fairly simple.
Windy Schor: Having measurables like wind, position, sun, land level, prim size. These are features I have been relying on for my work this morning and most days.
Max Chatnoir: creating is more of a challenge.
Beth Ghostraven: 1 = least usable 5 = most usable
Su Nacht: easy to create simple enough objects
Gann McGann: lots of means to chat

TheScrupulousDevil: People, commitment, loyalty, freedom, speech, discussions, debate, philosophy, science, INTERESTED individuals, community, hell even the occult
Sheila Yoshikawa: usable also means lots of functionality?
Valibrarian Gregg: SL is excellent…5! Best for productivity, comfort, collaboration
Gann McGann: can find each other easily
Beth Ghostraven: easy to transport yourself
Su Nacht: Also, there’s a lot of free stuff that educators share
David Burden (corro.moseley): agree, slides a real issue – or at least used to be
Beth Ghostraven: excellent for networking
TheScrupulousDevil: FREE
TheScrupulousDevil: ja
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): still is David
Gann McGann: that’s true
TheScrupulousDevil: definitely that
David Burden (corro.moseley): and LSL [Linden Scripting Language] not wonderful for development
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I have made clothes, cars, motorcycles, written articles for magazines, taught people how to do this too….you name it…you can do it.
TheScrupulousDevil: Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
Valibrarian Gregg: yes- would be nice to import slides more easily! but it is worth the effort 😉
Gann McGann: yeah lots of free stuff
Wisdomseeker (lissena): yes I am aware of how many parts of SL I don’t know because it is so enormous
Gann McGann: plus you can change your looks
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Youtube tutorial videos are very helpful.
TheScrupulousDevil: free-and-dom
Windy Schor: Oh yeah, having canonical objects on the sim instead of on user’s local, except for particles of course, is great
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Put your slides in a PPT and project them on a prim..
TheScrupulousDevil: ja the space tooo
TheScrupulousDevil: so much land
Widget Whiteberry: Explore identity, style, relationships, opportunities to be useful
Gann McGann: expression, and a feeling of being able to talk whenever
David Burden (corro.moseley): there’s an interesting quality to SL avatars too – still better on their own terms than most of the SVR spaces
Gann McGann: voice and chat
TheScrupulousDevil: oo identity
TheScrupulousDevil: nice one
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Also the ability to use and transfer currency in and out of SL is really nice.
David Burden (corro.moseley): Interesting how people are taking to the even more cartooonly ones like VirBela
Windy Schor: hear hear, currency. Useful for my nonprofit to get some love.
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): You can meet people of all nations. The music is awesome..I heard opera to rock.
David Burden (corro.moseley): in comparison to SL….
Widget Whiteberry: cross talk interferes with the program
Widget Whiteberry: unless we text
TheScrupulousDevil: 1 is worst right?
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
TheScrupulousDevil: sorry
Gann McGann: yes,
TheScrupulousDevil: ok
Gann McGann: 1 is lowest
David Burden (corro.moseley): you can’t rez stuff out of thin air
TheScrupulousDevil: nods yeah to many corporatists
Marly (marly.milena): I took my whole creative skill set from my physical world into SL so, for me, it is transferable both ways
Gann McGann: absolutely
David Burden (corro.moseley): or hold the meetings in places that give the discussion context
Widget Whiteberry: bigger time commitment
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think POTENTIALLY it has amazing usability
TheScrupulousDevil: it costs me a TONNNNNN of money for art supplies IRL
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): cost of brick and mortar space.
TheScrupulousDevil: did you know
Beth Ghostraven: lots easier to make clothes in SL than RL
Sheila Yoshikawa: it depends what kind of physical environment you are in
Windy Schor: RL has power. A solar cooker IRL actually cooks lunch.
TheScrupulousDevil: it can cost as much as prob even more 40USD for one tube of good oil paint?
Gann McGann: plus you can’t get to talk unless you time it absolutely precisely for when there’s a gap in the conversation
Sheila Yoshikawa: indeed Beth!
Widget Whiteberry: when I would go to a meeting in SF, I had travel time and costs on both ends
Gann McGann: also stuck with the one appearance
Shiloh Emmons: [wonders how difficult it would be to add an olfactory quality to SL or VR to enhance learning environment …]
TheScrupulousDevil: than you have to buy canvases
TheScrupulousDevil: I can reuse prims here
Beth Ghostraven: Gann, yes! I had that problem in a Zoom meeting today
Beth Ghostraven: I typed in chat but I don’t think they were reading that, either
Widget Whiteberry: Hugs
Gann McGann: draw and interact
David Burden (corro.moseley): body language, gesture, expressions
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): You can’t fly, and you can catch a deadly virus.
Gann McGann: higher rez
Marly (marly.milena): You can draw here with a 3D web board
Windy Schor: jinx!
Beth Ghostraven: PW is much better for reading nonverbal cues
TheScrupulousDevil: Meh physical is nice I enjoy the metaphysical nature of SL
Su Nacht: When it comes to work, I would have no problem doing everything here
Gann McGann: nice
Maggie Larimore: you can go out for a coffee afterwards and taste the coffee 😉
Widget Whiteberry: Beth, yes
Beth Ghostraven: and expressing affection is easier in the PW
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): Collaboration in the real world is so nice..but you can collaborate here, too. 🙂
Maggie Larimore: yes Beth!
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): yes, you can catch viruses out there…
David Burden (corro.moseley): interesting how natural just simple head and hand tracking in VR makes things seem more “real”
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes I think there are loads of possibility for using bodies and space, colour, sounds,
Gann McGann: true
Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s just we don’t use them all
Beth Ghostraven: but expressing affection can be more dangerous in the PW, lol
Maggie Larimore: and you can feel the wind and the sun if you’re outdoors
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): I think the physical touching of a shoulder or hand…that’s the best part of the real world…and the smiles. 🙂
Gann McGann: so sensory more of it
Widget Whiteberry opens the window wider
Maggie Larimore: although I love the bird song in here, and seeing the trees move, but definitely more sensory inputs in RL
David Burden (corro.moseley): @Gann hope you realise you’re competing with a #cluelesstweetalong!
Su Nacht: On the other hand, I don’t think VR is there yet. I find meetings in VR quite tiring
Beth Ghostraven: also smells and taste are possible in the PW, not in SL
Sheila Yoshikawa: sound of wind through the leaves! birds! squirrels! scent of flowers (from my daily exercise today)
Marly (marly.milena): I had to adjust to not seeing body language for coaching etc and relying on voice and other stuff
David Burden (corro.moseley): (not that I’m multitasking!)
Shiloh Emmons: @ Widget, Yay in bigger window
Widget Whiteberry grins at Shiloh
David Burden (corro.moseley): Almost non existent with SVR – all very locked down
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Tilt Brush is the only one I know of…
ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler): tc all….great topic and nice to meet you all. 🙂
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): to be creative
Valibrarian Gregg: VR is confining with a headset. I find I really like the distance between my head and the screen and it does not feel less immersive here
TheScrupulousDevil: I like the fact I can click one button and be talking to someone in Japan, Italy, Russia, Germany, Sweden, any other European or foreign country and have a conversation, about SL, the internet, and the radio waves.
Sheila Yoshikawa: it seems difficult
Gann McGann: can rezz stuff but not create
David Burden (corro.moseley): in Engage it’s just rezzing limited objects
Su Nacht: I’m a newbie so …
Sheila Yoshikawa: to create things and change things
David Burden (corro.moseley): On our own platform the space owner controls what you can rez and play with
Widget Whiteberry: I’m really liking this Opinionator
Sheila Yoshikawa: i love my Opinionator
Windy Schor: I would love to have to my lab someone who knows anywhere else I can make the objects I make here.
Gann McGann: can move and express yourself through motion, hand and head movements
David Burden (corro.moseley): there is an obsession though with having VR creation tools in VR – rather than being more productive in a 2D space like SL to create the VR experience
Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s really old but still works
Sheila Yoshikawa: works
Su Nacht: Same here Sheila. I use it a lot 🙂
Gann McGann: PIVOTE
Su Nacht: Best tool ever 🙂
Valibrarian Gregg: A recent talk in AltspaceVR was SO boring. Everyone looked the same, nobody but the speaker could talk and there was nothing to do but listen. Should have just been a YouTube video
David Burden (corro.moseley): @Gann yes, certainly more natural, although odd when sat down – need bigger rooms
TheScrupulousDevil: they’ll get there one day with it
TheScrupulousDevil: it’s not now tho
TheScrupulousDevil: prob 10
TheScrupulousDevil: 20 more years
TheScrupulousDevil: before vr takes over sl
David Burden (corro.moseley): 😉
TheScrupulousDevil: we’d all want to convert tho
TheScrupulousDevil: it’d be INSANE
TheScrupulousDevil: and comfortable
TheScrupulousDevil: especially
Su Nacht: VAL yes!!! Those clunky avatars are so boring
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
Beth Ghostraven: I went to a conference in VirBela that wasn’t any better than a webinar environment – slides and talking
TheScrupulousDevil: 10 or 20 years
TheScrupulousDevil: that shit will be as thin as cardboard
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
Gann McGann: @valibrarian yes, i was at an altspace conference and it was just a ppt
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I am just surprised really that coronavirus did not move Facebook to come out with Facebook Horizon sooner
David Burden (corro.moseley): Odd how some of the SL competitors had those clunky avatars in the 2000s, but now they’re back in AltSpaceVR
Valibrarian Gregg: I hope virtual worlds survive and VR is only used when that total immersion is necessary (and so far that is rare)
David Burden (corro.moseley): Easily the most fun of all the platforms
TheScrupulousDevil: release the floodgates!
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I consider SL to be virtual reality —
Su Nacht: Getting very busy here in 5
Gann McGann: how much fun is SL on a scale of 1 to 5 and why
Widget Whiteberry: Does the Opinionator count us when we sit on the walls?
David Burden (corro.moseley): Was wandering on Mars in EngageVR but nothing to do
David Burden (corro.moseley): In SL I could have built whatever I wanted
Gann McGann: so it’s about stuff to do
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): You can fly and you can’t catch a virus.
Beth Ghostraven: different things are funner in different places
Gann McGann: and is it about the people here too
Windy Schor: I don’t think redundant overloud avi noises are fun.
Wisdomseeker (lissena): I think other virtual worlds have other kinds of audiences
TheScrupulousDevil: LMAO lost
TheScrupulousDevil: ja
Valibrarian Gregg: SL provides opportunities for nearly any purpose! anything you can imagine
TheScrupulousDevil: definitely
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Meeting people in real time from all over the world.
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): I think it is wonderful
David Burden (corro.moseley): And the fashion and style in SL really separates it out from other platforms (he says in jeans and jacket…)
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I meet with educators in SL
TheScrupulousDevil: Definitely wisdom
Su Nacht: It’s quite easy to do things in a VW, even for newbies
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): The artistry!!
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): “The next killer app is people.”
Su Nacht: Shiloh …
Gann McGann: and is it possible to have fun here on your own?

David Burden (corro.moseley): It’s certainly the closest to the Snow Crash or Caprica vision
Su Nacht: Standing there facing so many people watching her
TheScrupulousDevil: ye that and windy and especially WISDOM
TheScrupulousDevil: GASPS
TheScrupulousDevil: A FOUR???
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
Shiloh Emmons: @ Su.. Yes???
Shiloh Emmons: hahahaha
Su Nacht: Just wondering why you are there 🙂
Shiloh Emmons: see… body language is still apparent… even in SL
Windy Schor: I’m here because there’s oftentimes I’m not meeting the people I used to meet, interest-wise, very work-related demand of mine.
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Shiloh, why do you think SL is not fun
TheScrupulousDevil: HELL NO
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
TheScrupulousDevil: OH GOD NO
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Immediately fun.
Shiloh Emmons: oh Blue is a NOT
Max Chatnoir: Yes, pretty much.
Maggie Larimore: yes, but lonely and embarrassing
Su Nacht: Definitely. From the very first day.
TheScrupulousDevil: it’s been a BRUTAL ride
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
Gann McGann: how long did it take before it was fun?
Shiloh Emmons: I thought Red was the Not
Su Nacht: That’s why I got hooked
PI (pi.illios): immediately
Sheila Yoshikawa: for me it was fun from the first moment
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): was fun immediately
Wisdomseeker (lissena): I can see reasons for other vws and fun there too
Gann McGann: nods
David Burden (corro.moseley): Day 1 – diving off of cliffs with my kids (then about 5/7) somewhere on the mainland
Beth Ghostraven: fun right away
TheScrupulousDevil: i mean it was fun
TheScrupulousDevil: not enjoyable
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
TheScrupulousDevil: originally when I began
David Burden (corro.moseley): going to the BBC 1 Big Weekend bash
Shiloh Emmons: I was caught on Orientation Island for 5 months
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol explain @Devil
Shiloh Emmons: and that is a True Story
Marly (marly.milena): It was fun because I had a mentor, the person who told me about it initially. It captured me right away because I could see its potential for creativity
Su Nacht: I started in the spring and spent the summer dancing 🙂
Maggie Larimore: awww Shiloh!
TheScrupulousDevil: I was chillin at tiki beach social island when it had voice
David Burden (corro.moseley): although still hard to beat riding a hoverboard in
TheScrupulousDevil: than I went to another place
Valibrarian Gregg: I loved it immediately….like entering a metaphor
TheScrupulousDevil: turned out it was owned by neo nazis
TheScrupulousDevil: LMAO
Marly (marly.milena): Yeah Val!
David Burden (corro.moseley): 😦 earning the dollar!
Maggie Larimore: yeah if I’m honest
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Before the virus or now?
TheScrupulousDevil: so you can imagine how fun that was
Valibrarian Gregg: The physical world is awesome….especially our National Parks 🙂
TheScrupulousDevil: “fun”
Stranger Nightfire: for the first two weeks I found the land fascinating and the people very boring
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I stay on 5
TheScrupulousDevil: whats the question?
Max Chatnoir: Real life is pretty good too.
Shiloh Emmons: I do suggest though
Wisdomseeker (lissena): thinks of RW smells a la Shiloh
David Burden (corro.moseley): yes could notch down a bit post COVID – esp not being able to go places and see people
Widget Whiteberry: Some days are more fun than others
Gann McGann: how much fun is the physical world, usually
Su Nacht: @Stranger, I was chatting with everyone … so many people in those times 🙂
Marly (marly.milena): Before or after the virus…similar for me. I make art and compose music and read and enjoy the nature that surrounds me
Shiloh Emmons: that Red is often associated with the Negative or No.. lol
Wisdomseeker (lissena): and real world spring blossoms
David Burden (corro.moseley): failure in RL can have big consequences, not so much in SL
Maggie Larimore: and being stuck at home with a husband you love …
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Shiloh, red is 5 and it is more fun and 1 is less fun
Shiloh Emmons: well
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I mainly live in vws.
TheScrupulousDevil: can’t decide
TheScrupulousDevil: lmao
TheScrupulousDevil: sorry
TheScrupulousDevil: dat bind
Marly (marly.milena): I assume that if it weren’t fun, people would leave!
TheScrupulousDevil: real life?
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): haha Marly – where to?
Valibrarian Gregg: Awesome Sheila- the pie charts
Gann McGann: though being stuck at home at a different home from a spouse not so much fun
Shiloh Emmons: @ David… not so sure that there might not be an emotional impact… from failure.. even if it is just in SL
TheScrupulousDevil: Is the question is real life fun?
Su Nacht: Yes Scrup
TheScrupulousDevil: okay
TheScrupulousDevil: lets just say
Gann McGann: on the whole scrupulous
TheScrupulousDevil: I’m 1.5
Gann McGann: what are the issues
TheScrupulousDevil: lol
Su Nacht: We have the optimists on this side 🙂
TheScrupulousDevil: welllll
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): does not count Scrup
TheScrupulousDevil: I have agoraphobia
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): lol
Marly (marly.milena): Leave SL, and, unfortunately, in regular life, many leave through suicide
TheScrupulousDevil: for one
TheScrupulousDevil: and constant OCD
David Burden (corro.moseley): @Shiloh yes, and rejection too, but not in most cases going to remove the roof over your head or food from the kids table
Sheila Yoshikawa: We are still on the fun of RL? It can be the most fun – but also the most tragic and heartrending and that is where you actually die
Gann McGann: true
Shiloh Emmons: Whoa, @ Marly.. is that true??
Sheila Yoshikawa: but I would still put it at 5
Su Nacht: Ok then Scrup … understandable 🙂
TheScrupulousDevil: I am almost constantly in physical pain
TheScrupulousDevil: lol just from my anxiety
Gann McGann: fun in VR
David Burden (corro.moseley): It’s not quite there yet – that lack of agency and creativity
Gann McGann: 1 to 5
Beth Ghostraven: sorry Windy, I keep bumping into you
Valibrarian Gregg: VR is uncomfortable so far! There is a moment of WOW but then little purpose for me
TheScrupulousDevil: lack of agency nodssssssssssssssss
David Burden (corro.moseley): no reason its shouldn’t come though
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Same here, Val.
Su Nacht: I love it … then I am sick 😦
Marly (marly.milena): @Shiloh—the rate of suicide has skyrocketed
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I mean with stereo headset
Su Nacht: then I love it again …
Shiloh Emmons: as a tool, this opinionator is very very useful
David Burden (corro.moseley): I mean we did have VR HMDs in SL for a short while, so really the “SL” and “VR” comparison is invalid
Su Nacht: and go green
Shiloh Emmons: wow
Sheila Yoshikawa: i THINK sl HAS WON
Sheila Yoshikawa: THE ONE ON THE LEFT
David Burden (corro.moseley): yep, very neat tool this dynamically generating the pie chart
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): do people choose the place to stay in the Opinionator according to their favorite color?
Shiloh Emmons: so now I realize that under 25 age may be feeling helpless and lost in life.
Windy Schor: select group. Think of what survey of people who have left would have answered.
Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry caps lock by mistake
Su Nacht: Isn’t it all part of Extended reality though
Valibrarian Gregg: YES! it is a very important comparison- TY for this session
Widget Whiteberry: Could use labels on the colors
Gann McGann: so I’ll gather our responses and share them with the group
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks ever so much Gann!
Widget Whiteberry: Clearer labeling
Su Nacht: My comments disappear …
Sheila Yoshikawa: that was really interesting
TheScrupulousDevil: I gots to smoke
Shiloh Emmons: I chose it according socializing of the colors
Su Nacht: Not that one
Shiloh Emmons: most often.. blue is access.. red is barrier
Gann McGann: and maybe we can talk about this further and look next at what we could do to combine the best of these different platforms in the future
Valibrarian Gregg: I think Gann is utilizing thinking rings
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): interesting view Shiloh
Shiloh Emmons: or.. green is go and access
Su Nacht: I said: aren’t VR, SL, RL all part of our new reality though (extended reality)?
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes I could have chosen the colours better! they were random
Su Nacht: I would argue that we should not differentiate them
David Burden (corro.moseley): @Su yes agreed, multiple realities better, agreed
TheScrupulousDevil: but sl
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): a proto-type of things to come… mmmh
TheScrupulousDevil: the best place for memorializing someone’s life
TheScrupulousDevil: could just be
Su Nacht: We all live in this intersection
Gann McGann: so we move between them
TheScrupulousDevil: after passing
TheScrupulousDevil: also I’d argue this is off topic
Shiloh Emmons: they have that @The
David Burden (corro.moseley): we leave digital traces in each one
Su Nacht: partly in Rl, sitting in our homes, and chatting with people in SL
Maggie Larimore: yep Su, wonderful way to put it
Shiloh Emmons: there is an SL cemetery
TheScrupulousDevil: not just the traces or a cemetery
TheScrupulousDevil: but think of it this way
Gann McGann: so RL SL VR all part of one multiverse hhhmmmm
Beth Ghostraven: Shiloh, there are many, I think
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Devil yes, except when people memorialise on a sim that then vapourises as it is no longer paid for
Shiloh Emmons: you can, in perpetuity, memorialize a person as well as your pet
Valibrarian Gregg: I must head out. This was FABulous! thanks
David Burden (corro.moseley): back back in 2008 at ReLive we identified how hard it was practically to move between spaces in the multiverse/metaverse
Su Nacht: Gann: it is all extended reality
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes this is out of time
Sheila Yoshikawa: but thanks EVERYONE
TheScrupulousDevil: you get enough friends ask around enough maybe you can place out a photo and eulogy, if not that you could find a TON of open rez spots with no auto return and place a photo if you were willing
Maggie Larimore: got to get back to work
Su Nacht: different spaces intersecting one another
Suemoon Magic: Thank you, this was fun and informative
Maggie Larimore: thanks thanks Gann! lots of food for thought
Beth Ghostraven: Hi PI and Pela!
TheScrupulousDevil: telling people about the person ofc and the discussion aspect is key
Su Nacht: Thanks Gann 🙂
Shiloh Emmons: thank you for this opportunity to participate with this tool
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): thanks Gann, very engaging
David Burden (corro.moseley): some nice media takes in Devs, and in Kiss me First last year (or year before)
Beth Ghostraven: I love seeing instant graphs with the Opinionator
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Thanks, Gann!
Sheila Yoshikawa: I hope you can return for a 2nd round @Gann
TheScrupulousDevil: hallo pela
Max Chatnoir: Yes, good start!
Shiloh Emmons: i like that it creates an interactive situation
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): Gann, are you speaking? or speechless?
Itxchel20: Thank you, very informative and loved the Opinionator!
Gann McGann: yes there’s been lots of food for thought
PI (pi.illios): Thank you very much
David Burden (corro.moseley): (was speaking!)
Shiloh Emmons: instead of just being an attendee.. we all get to see the graph and what or how it reflects our opinions
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): yes, but you have not been chatting…
Shiloh Emmons: who? me?
David Burden (corro.moseley): far more interactive than the VR session I’ve just been to, great compare and contrast
Shiloh Emmons: I have been observing…
David Burden (corro.moseley): 😉
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): no, talking to Gann, Shiloh – all good
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Shiloh no I think she meant … Gann?
Widget Whiteberry: Will there be a questionnaire?
Beth Ghostraven: will there be a test? (just kidding
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): haha
Wisdomseeker (lissena): same thought Beth 🙂
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): gtg – thanks a lot Gann
Widget Whiteberry: well, you bundled a lot of variables into each of your topics
Beth Ghostraven: are we being graded on this?
Shiloh Emmons: here is a Q I have…
Gann McGann: 🙂
Beth Ghostraven: too much time in middle school, lol
Shiloh Emmons: like… guessing the number of marbles in a container…
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, what has been the point of this if we don’t get a grade lol
Gann McGann: @widget
Gann McGann: yes was pushed for time
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi) is politely waiting for Shiloh’s Q
Gann McGann: some of the variables work together
Gann McGann: some of them don’t
Widget Whiteberry: “Pushed for time’ is a trap in any environment
Shiloh Emmons: would this Opinionator also reflect the average of opinions of people outside of the SL-environment?
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): good Q
Gann McGann: i will unpack them more
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Shiloh – I doubt it
Windy Schor: not if they’re not in the boxes
Gann McGann: i want to run a similar session in RL –
Su Nacht: I’m sorry, but I have to log off. It was really engaging, thanks Mark and thanks VWER people for organising this
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): in Zoom Gann?
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Shiloh people who love VR and scarcely know SL would have given different answers I think
Widget Whiteberry: Sheila, can you modify the colors and labels?
David Burden (corro.moseley): @Shiloh – SL what? thought that died ages ago…
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Widget yes
Windy Schor: We have this problem in physics education. We want women in physics, but we only bother to ask the few women who do select physics what they like about it, instead of asking the many women and men who don’t select it why they didn’t.
Gann McGann: @heike you know what? for a moment i forgot about the pandemic

Sheila Yoshikawa: this has textures for the numbers
Gann McGann: yeah in zoom
Sheila Yoshikawa: and then I coloured the segments
Widget Whiteberry: Windy, I have a link for you. Stand by
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): good thing! Gann
David Burden (corro.moseley): I’ve suggested to ImmerseUK that they do a session on all the lessons we’ve lost between SL and VR, based around the ReLive Delphi possibly, we’ll see if they bite
Windy Schor rubs hands!
Shiloh Emmons: my parents both were advocates of bringing women into, and inspriing women to pursue engineering and mathematics degrees… with the Professional Engineering Society of America
Gann McGann: i think they will be surprised by how much fun and easy people here think it is
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): are you an engineer Shiloh?
Lost Traveler (jaywick.forcella): Awesome, Shi!
Windy Schor: Cool, SE
Shiloh Emmons: no….
Shiloh Emmons: my father wished I had pursued it
Shiloh Emmons: he was an engineer
Sheila Yoshikawa: hmm though that didn’t affect the centre pie so perhaps you can’t change colours. I need to fiddle round & remember it
Gann McGann: so yes, polling the people who don’t do stuff is as important as finding the opinions of those that do
Beth Ghostraven: you are a scientist though, aren’t you, Shiloh?
Wisdomseeker (lissena): Considering the number of new avis we have recently logged on our sim, coming in must be easier than we think
Shiloh Emmons: my mother manned the Women’s Auxiliary of the Prof Engineering society.. she was president of it.. for 6 years
Sheila Yoshikawa: oops I am being called away
Sheila Yoshikawa: I had better go now!
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks again Gann
Beth Ghostraven: Sheila thanks for doing this!
Shiloh Emmons: but.. that is a good Q.. about asking women why they choose to pursue physics, or not to.
David Burden (corro.moseley): By Sheila
Shiloh Emmons: This was very interesting.
Gann McGann: ok we;ve overrun.
Sheila Yoshikawa: it was really great and thanks again everyone else too!
Heike Philp (gwen.gwasi): byeeee…
Beth Ghostraven: Gann, once again, this was awesome! thank you!
Sheila Yoshikawa: byeeeeeeee
Shiloh Emmons: Beth. no.. I only studied Anthropology (ethnology)
PI (pi.illios): Very interesting Good bye everybody See you soon Stay safe
Gann McGann: bye sheila
Shiloh Emmons: Gwen is the Anthropologist in real life
Marly (marly.milena): Gann, see my IM to you
Shiloh Emmons: is that correct, Gwen?
Gann McGann: thanks Beth –
David Burden (corro.moseley): ok for me to blog about this tomorrow – got some nice snaps or is that your research IP Gann?
Shiloh Emmons: this was very interesting
Gann McGann: it’s raised a lot of interesting stuff
Shiloh Emmons: thank you, again, for sharing.
Gann McGann: i will be back with the next stage at some point
Beth Ghostraven: David, will you send me the URL for your blog when you post it?
Gann McGann: hi David yes of course
Gann McGann: email me the link once it’s done
Gann McGann: i mean published,
Gann McGann: so i can show my line manager
David Burden (corro.moseley): sure, will be on
Gann McGann: oh neat
Itxchel20: @Gann McGann, I am very new to SL and currently putting together a proposal to introduce it to the college I work for. Can you please tell me how I can get hold of an Opinionator? Thanks 🙂
David Burden (corro.moseley): in fact last post was on comparing SVR in same was as Gann has done – compare and contrast our posts
Gann McGann: yes, ask Sheila 🙂
Beth Ghostraven: Itxchel I’ll send you the Marketplace link for it
Gann McGann: or Beth
Gann McGann: @david oh neat
Gann McGann: Beth has this chat been saved?
Itxchel20: Thank you Beth, really appreciate it. I have thoroughly enjoyed the session, lots of ideas!
Gann McGann: there’s so much good stuff in here
TheScrupulousDevil: back
TheScrupulousDevil: smokin
Gann McGann: i’ll not mention any names obv.
David Burden (corro.moseley): Time to head back to RL. Thanks Gann, Beth et al, really good session.
Windy Schor: I think things are what we make them. I blame myself for not making things/experiences here compelling enough to expect to meet my clients in SL. But I also think I hope to replicate things in here to the outside, say a web site, so people don’t have to download this bulky software.
Gann McGann: just unpacking the categories will be helpful
David Burden (corro.moseley): Catch up later Gann
David Burden (corro.moseley): SL in WebGL is what we all want….
Gann McGann: yep david 🙂
Gann McGann: it’sok just saved it
TheScrupulousDevil: meet them in sl or rl windy?
TheScrupulousDevil: srry
David Burden (corro.moseley): bye
papodemalandro: oh it seems I got here to late
Beth Ghostraven: here’s the Opinionator
Beth Ghostraven:
TheScrupulousDevil: It’s can be a wonderful thing to meet someone off of sl IFFFFFF you’ve known them for years and years and can ABSOLUTELY 100% trust them lmfao
TheScrupulousDevil: I do not recommend doing such tho
Itxchel20: Thanks @Beth 🙂
Windy Schor: Oooh, thanks BG. I was going to program it myself…
TheScrupulousDevil: met to many crazies on sl that I would NEVER go near irl lol
Beth Ghostraven: yw!
TheScrupulousDevil: but the time I met up it was incredibly surreal, and amazing
TheScrupulousDevil: Literally felt like I was playing sl
TheScrupulousDevil: lmfao
TheScrupulousDevil: irl
Beth Ghostraven: Gann yes, I’m saving the chat
TheScrupulousDevil: and my body was the avatar

VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Based on a work at

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s