August 19, 2021: Education through the Looking Glass

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: August 19, 2021
Topic: Education through the Looking Glass
Photos by Sheila Yoshikawa

In this VWER session we visited the Alice in Wonderland location and used it to stimulate discussions

[2021/08/19 12:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour.
VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds.
[2021/08/19 12:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript in due course. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/
[2021/08/19 12:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world. Please join the VWER group here in SL.
If you are on Facebook please join our group there http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/
[2021/08/19 12:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: The topic for this week’s meeting will be:
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: Education through the Looking Glass
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: There’s a folder in the box over the other side of the table
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: from me
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: touch it and you should get the folder
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: with notecard and landmarks
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: Right!
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: Introductions!
[2021/08/19 12:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: First let’s start by introducing ourselves. Please type as much or as little about yourself as you want to, in text chat.
Just type in all at once.
[2021/08/19 12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach and research in teh Information School, University of Sheffield, England. I’m lead of VWER, and owner of this island
[2021/08/19 12:04] Dae Miami: Bill Schmachtenberg (sl Dae Miami) retired science teacher Virginia. Research Associate Virginia Museum of Natural History
[2021/08/19 12:04] Valibrarian Gregg: Valerie Hill, Seattle, Community Virtual Library https://about.me/valibrarian
[2021/08/19 12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: and I like virtual cats ;-))
[2021/08/19 12:04] PI (pi.illios): PI Illios Virtual Reference medical Librarian & Library Website Content Developer & Administrator Conrado F. Asenjo Library University of Puerto Rico’s Medical Sciences Campus https://www.upr.edu/biblioteca-rcm FB https://www.facebook.com/PicaraPI Twitter @PI_illios
[2021/08/19 12:04] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): shiloh emmons, special events coordinator (west) with Sciencecircle.org
[2021/08/19 12:04] Suemoon Magic: I am an academic Law Librarian in the physical world and I hang with CVL here and in other virtual worlds.
[2021/08/19 12:05] Valibrarian Gregg: Suemoon likes virtual cats, too LOL
[2021/08/19 12:05] Suemoon Magic: ㋡
[2021/08/19 12:05] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Selby Evans, Fort Worth, blogger, retired prof. of psychology
https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/
[2021/08/19 12:05] Dae Miami: I like rl cats. Don’t any of you like them too. Well sandy can be a pain see profile but we do love her
[2021/08/19 12:05] Marly (marly.milena): Niela Miller, adult ed, arts-based learning, Gestalt therapist, Organization consultant, other stuff. See http://www.peoplesystemspotential.com
[2021/08/19 12:06] Suemoon Magic: I have many RL cats also ㋡
[2021/08/19 12:06] Valibrarian Gregg: Marly is super creative at “other stuff” hehe
[2021/08/19 12:06] Catseye (katsii.tennen): catseye tennen…assists Marly and Lissena at Octagon and WBH
[2021/08/19 12:06] Marly (marly.milena): Marly blushes
[2021/08/19 12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: lol yes I like RL cats too, but sadly we don’t have one, I have to enjoy the neighbours’ cats
[2021/08/19 12:06] Strandwind: Hello everyone. In Sl I try to build and learn. In RL I live in Stuttgart/Germany and work as librarian.
[2021/08/19 12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: Right the notecard outlines what we will do today
[2021/08/19 12:07] Catseye (katsii.tennen): anthropology, writing, creativity, distance education, growth are why I’m here
[2021/08/19 12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: It is a mixture of visit and discussion
[2021/08/19 12:07] Marly (marly.milena): “I love little mousies, Mousies what I love to eat< Bite off their little heads, Chew on their tiny feet”
[2021/08/19 12:07] Dae Miami: Strandwind my ancestors are from Germany. I would love to visit your country sometime
[2021/08/19 12:07] Valibrarian Gregg: A librarian in Germany (will hope to chat with you!!) awesome
[2021/08/19 12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: since I think some of you already visited Wonderland we thought we would give it an added aspect discussing some topics prompted by it
[2021/08/19 12:07] Valibrarian Gregg: Welcome Stranger
[2021/08/19 12:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: I studied German at University (a long time ago but I still understand German)
[2021/08/19 12:08] Valibrarian Gregg: TY Sheila- great idea- to dig into the educational value of a literary simulation that is creative like Wonderland
[2021/08/19 12:08] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2021/03/2012-vwedu-acrl-virtual-world-interest.html
[2021/08/19 12:08] Catseye (katsii.tennen): hey stranger


[2021/08/19 12:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: Right – so did you want to say anything before we started, @Val?
[2021/08/19 12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: does anyone want the notecard dropping on them?
[2021/08/19 12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: say if you haven’t got it yet
[2021/08/19 12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: wb Shiloh
[2021/08/19 12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: if you get lost or crashed, use the landmarks in the notecard and you will catch up!
[2021/08/19 12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: we will be in one of the places
[2021/08/19 12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: we will start by GETTING to wonderland
[2021/08/19 12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: you can use the portal over there
[2021/08/19 12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: or the landmark
[2021/08/19 12:10] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): will meet ya all ther ASAP
[2021/08/19 12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Funny%20Island/50/133/901
[2021/08/19 12:11] Sheila Yoshikawa: with the portal – accept EXPERIENCES
[2021/08/19 12:11] Valibrarian Gregg: ok meet you there!!
[2021/08/19 12:11] Sheila Yoshikawa: if you haven’t used it before


We teleported to the Wonderland entry point http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Funny%20Island/50/133/901
[2021/08/19 12:11] Valibrarian Gregg: I love falling down the rabbit hole!
[2021/08/19 12:11] Valibrarian Gregg: yes Marly you just walk over and drop into it!
[2021/08/19 12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: OK – DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE
[2021/08/19 12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: just walk to it
[2021/08/19 12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: and tumble down
[2021/08/19 12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: like in the book
[2021/08/19 12:12] Dae Miami: so what is the literary significance of going down a rabbit hole?
[2021/08/19 12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: that’s what she does in the book!
[2021/08/19 12:12] Marly (marly.milena): I Think of it as a metaphor
[2021/08/19 12:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: she follows a white rabbit and falls down the hole into wonderland
[2021/08/19 12:13] Catseye (katsii.tennen): we use it a lot when talking about getting immersed in something we’re not sure where it will lead us
[2021/08/19 12:13] Marly (marly.milena): Losing your bearings, not knowing where you will land. Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience — and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it. How does this happen? According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we’re all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality.”
[2021/08/19 12:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: and she’s pretty reflective as she falls down
[2021/08/19 12:13] Dae Miami: yes I know that part of the story but what does it mean when someone is going down a rabbit hole
[2021/08/19 12:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: wondering if she’ll come out at the other side of the world
[2021/08/19 12:13] Valibrarian Gregg: https://medium.com/useless-knowledge-daily/history-of-the-idiom-down-the-rabbit-hole-fe044ff96fde
[2021/08/19 12:13] Catseye (katsii.tennen): as in “I’m not going down that rabbit hole” so there seems to be some agreement culturally on what it means
[2021/08/19 12:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: the implication is it’s a dead end or very troublesome
[2021/08/19 12:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: though could also see it as letting go
[2021/08/19 12:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: or free falling
[2021/08/19 12:14] Valibrarian Gregg: Today we think of it as “getting sucked into something!”
[2021/08/19 12:14] Catseye (katsii.tennen): or at least completely unknown and therefore we are wary
[2021/08/19 12:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: TOUCH THE POTION next
[2021/08/19 12:15] Dae Miami: thanks Val
[2021/08/19 12:15] Catseye (katsii.tennen): but the story seems to urge us to do it..and I know my generation responded that way somewhat…as well as to the drink me part
[2021/08/19 12:15] Dae Miami: so i guess we fall down the rabbit hole everytime we log into sl lol
[2021/08/19 12:15] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): hahahahahah
[2021/08/19 12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: lol yes Catseye
[2021/08/19 12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: anyway
[2021/08/19 12:15] Catseye (katsii.tennen): lol..indeed Dae 🙂
[2021/08/19 12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: TOUCH THE POTION
[2021/08/19 12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: to “shrink”
[2021/08/19 12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: ie get teleported to the next location
[2021/08/19 12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: there’s a teleporter in the potion

[2021/08/19 12:16] Suemoon Magic: I thought is was one pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small

We touched the potion and were teleported to the room with the door into Wonderland

[2021/08/19 12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: YOU NEED TO BE IN THE GROUP
[2021/08/19 12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: touch the key by the table
[2021/08/19 12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: and you get the invite to the group
[2021/08/19 12:17] Sheila Yoshikawa: otherwise you get stuck in the door
[2021/08/19 12:17] Dae Miami: ty
[2021/08/19 12:17] Sheila Yoshikawa: if you already joined before, please activate the group
[2021/08/19 12:17] Valibrarian Gregg: Touch the potion then go thru the curtained door
[2021/08/19 12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: You need to have “Alice’s Friend” over your head
[2021/08/19 12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: to show the group is activated
[2021/08/19 12:18] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): awwww I am tiny now I was a member of this group 5 years back
m)
[2021/08/19 12:18] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): or 6 years back
[2021/08/19 12:19] Catseye (katsii.tennen): were we supposed to come back here?
[2021/08/19 12:19] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): no
[2021/08/19 12:19] Sheila Yoshikawa: no, you need to join the group
[2021/08/19 12:19] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): we have to join the group I think
[2021/08/19 12:19] Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m inviting people
[2021/08/19 12:19] Sheila Yoshikawa: I hope
[2021/08/19 12:20] PI (pi.illios): ty
[2021/08/19 12:20] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think I invited Strandwind and Shiloh
[2021/08/19 12:20] Sheila Yoshikawa: did you get the invitation Strandwind
[2021/08/19 12:21] Strandwind: Yes, I got it, but I have no more space for a group.
[2021/08/19 12:21] Strandwind: Have to remove one.
[2021/08/19 12:21] Sheila Yoshikawa: Right OK Val will offer a TP
[2021/08/19 12:21] Sheila Yoshikawa: I hope that works
[2021/08/19 12:22] Catseye (katsii.tennen): ah..i have maximum
[2021/08/19 12:22] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i have to get rid of a group 😦
[2021/08/19 12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: see whether a tp will work
[2021/08/19 12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: has Val offered one to you yet?
[2021/08/19 12:22] Catseye (katsii.tennen): got it

[2021/08/19 12:22] Catseye (katsii.tennen): had to get rid of a group

We arrived at the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party

[2021/08/19 12:24] Strandwind: /me takes a cup of tea.
[2021/08/19 12:24] Sheila Yoshikawa: Yeah that’s everyone I think!!!!
[2021/08/19 12:24] Valibrarian Gregg: I will take a photo of us here!
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks for persisting!
[2021/08/19 12:25] Valibrarian Gregg: oh good we all made it.
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: Well, take a seat
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: and settle down for a little discussion
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: There were two topics
[2021/08/19 12:25] Valibrarian Gregg: a couple more chairs over here!
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: if people find them interesting
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: the first was
[2021/08/19 12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: “Use of existing creators’ objects. The designer has mostly used other creators’ objects to design the settings. What are your experiences – do you use other people’s creations a lot (e.g. buying from the SL Marketplace). What are the advantages and disadvantages?”
[2021/08/19 12:26] Sheila Yoshikawa: So
[2021/08/19 12:26] Sheila Yoshikawa: what do you think
[2021/08/19 12:26] Sheila Yoshikawa: do you think it’s good to use other creator’s objects – ready made things?
[2021/08/19 12:26] Marly (marly.milena): Can’t grab the teacup
[2021/08/19 12:26] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): I do,
[2021/08/19 12:26] Suemoon Magic: I do because I am not a talented builder
[2021/08/19 12:26] Catseye (katsii.tennen): if i don’t have the skills like scripting ..i sometimes involve others in what i’m making…i like to make things..but if it’s out of my wheelhouse, i’ll buy it
[2021/08/19 12:26] Sheila Yoshikawa: I seem to have got a muffin
[2021/08/19 12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: but not tea
[2021/08/19 12:27] Dormouse: Once upon a time there were three little sisters, and their names were Elsie, Lacie, and Tillie; and they lived at the bottom of a well.
[2021/08/19 12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: typical mad hatter
[2021/08/19 12:27] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): but it depends, Sheila
[2021/08/19 12:27] Valibrarian Gregg: Alice (the one running the sim) was impressed by the builder who she says “was an elderly gentleman in Belgium who passed away”
[2021/08/19 12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: As you will know from Infolit
[2021/08/19 12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: I do buy a lot of creator’s things
[2021/08/19 12:27] PI (pi.illios): Me too hehe
[2021/08/19 12:27] Catseye (katsii.tennen): I mostly started making stuff that I either couldn’t find or didn’t like what was available.. I like to support good creators too
[2021/08/19 12:27] Catseye (katsii.tennen): when i can
[2021/08/19 12:28] Sheila Yoshikawa: but @Val does that mean that now no one can move the objects here?
[2021/08/19 12:28] Marly (marly.milena): I like to create my own stuff and, fortunately, have two great helpers.
[2021/08/19 12:28] Sheila Yoshikawa: is it static?
[2021/08/19 12:28] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): for the Titanaboa exhibit… the bilder creators made some of their own items
[2021/08/19 12:28] Valibrarian Gregg: We are all creative but in different ways! Some building take a lot of tech skills
[2021/08/19 12:28] Sheila Yoshikawa: also I think it depends on what you want to do
[2021/08/19 12:28] Valibrarian Gregg: I am not sure about how the sim could be archived! Alice is maintaining it herself
[2021/08/19 12:28] March Hare: Suppose we change the subject, I’m getting tired of this. I vote the young lady tells us a story.
[2021/08/19 12:28] PI (pi.illios): I like mesh and I don’t have the skills
[2021/08/19 12:28] Strandwind: As I am not an improved Builder (I try to become one) I still buy objects. But try to rebuild them to learn how to do it.
[2021/08/19 12:29] PI (pi.illios): so I buy
[2021/08/19 12:29] Sheila Yoshikawa: if it is a case of creating a garden or forest – you can compile a marvellous one from existing creations at little cost, why would you make it? (that’s a real question)
[2021/08/19 12:29] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes..i can now build things i never knew i would be able to
[2021/08/19 12:29] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i learn by doing
[2021/08/19 12:29] Marly (marly.milena): In my Butterfly Gallery, I have a poster showing people how to create a flexigon step by step. I like it when there are clear instructions for creating objects!
[2021/08/19 12:29] Catseye (katsii.tennen): I think designing using many different creators’ stuff is still building. You’re building an environment
[2021/08/19 12:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes I must say I still see it as building
[2021/08/19 12:30] Valibrarian Gregg: It takes time to build and script- and as a teacher/librarian I barely have enough time to lead/mentor/teach/write etc…so we have to pick and choose (creativity comes in lots of ways)
[2021/08/19 12:30] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i had some good teachers in prim torturing…i can’t seem to wrap my add head around blender
[2021/08/19 12:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: one main disadvantage is that you cannot share with others
[2021/08/19 12:30] Valibrarian Gregg: Dae sort of forced me to build a virtual reality car in Unity LOL__ important to be aware of tech skills but nobody can master them all
[2021/08/19 12:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: and unless you use a shared avatar the inventory and items are dependent on one person being there
[2021/08/19 12:30] Stranger Nightfire: I doubt that many people actually build new SL trees for a single installation for instance
[2021/08/19 12:30] Valibrarian Gregg: ty Dae 😉
[2021/08/19 12:31] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): unless… you buy fullperm and texture it yourself
[2021/08/19 12:31] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): then you can share
[2021/08/19 12:31] Sheila Yoshikawa: although you can share rights to move objects
[2021/08/19 12:31] Stranger Nightfire: that would be a serious case of reinventing the wheel
[2021/08/19 12:31] Dae Miami: back
[2021/08/19 12:31] PI (pi.illios): wb
[2021/08/19 12:31] Valibrarian Gregg: and a question of digital legacy – what happens to your digital assets when you die (like this creator did)
[2021/08/19 12:31] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yea ..if it’s going to take too long to build from scratch that you lose the time to do what you’re setting out to do, it’s counter productive
[2021/08/19 12:32] Catseye (katsii.tennen): whispers: there’s a whole class out there somewhere…a guy who taught people how to find a “trusted friend” to take over their stuff without violating TOS
[2021/08/19 12:32] Sheila Yoshikawa: agree @Stranger
[2021/08/19 12:32] Suemoon Magic: I have a friend whose husband died and she talked Linden into giving her the three avatars that she didn’t have the passwords for (she had one)
[2021/08/19 12:32] Marly (marly.milena): Legacy question- I have designated my admin team and Liss at WBH to keep anything of mine they wish and chuck the rest
[2021/08/19 12:32] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Val yes indeed
[2021/08/19 12:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Suemoon it was good that LL was helpful, though even that effort must have been stressful at that time
[2021/08/19 12:33] Catseye (katsii.tennen): Ithink you need to submit paperwork to linden…might want to put it in your will
[2021/08/19 12:33] Valibrarian Gregg: good points all about archival- it is becoming an industry! there are companies specializing in it
[2021/08/19 12:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: good point!
[2021/08/19 12:34] Sheila Yoshikawa: I was thinking of giving someone I trusted my password so at least they could clear up after me
[2021/08/19 12:34] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): this is was happened with Chilbo …
[2021/08/19 12:34] Valibrarian Gregg: and I just learned about LastPass (a company that safely stores your passwords)– I could give a trusted person ONE password and they would get everything about me!
[2021/08/19 12:35] Marly (marly.milena): Been using Last Pass for years. Very convenient
[2021/08/19 12:35] Sheila Yoshikawa: though @Val actually I see SL as a bit different e.g. if my husband survived me, he would be best to communicate on FB, but not really in SL
[2021/08/19 12:35] Valibrarian Gregg: good idea Marly! you are ahead of me there in your tech skills hehe
[2021/08/19 12:35] Sheila Yoshikawa: but sounds like LastPass is worth thinking of
[2021/08/19 12:35] Dae Miami: I have nothing really here to leave my rl wife
[2021/08/19 12:36] Dae Miami: i have thought about last pass too
[2021/08/19 12:36] Dae Miami: tech changes so fast maybe just for the better
[2021/08/19 12:36] Valibrarian Gregg: yes @Sheila…but perhaps my son could be contacted by SL colleagues- good to give the person you choose (for digital legacy) a list of contacts maybe?
[2021/08/19 12:36] Sheila Yoshikawa: also it might freak people to see – e.g. Sheila Yoshikawa – if I was dead
[2021/08/19 12:36] Dae Miami: right
[2021/08/19 12:36] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes..i’ll try to find the course that person taught on all this
[2021/08/19 12:36] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think it would freak me to see the avatar of someone I knew well who’d died
[2021/08/19 12:36] Catseye (katsii.tennen): speaking of reinventing the wheel
[2021/08/19 12:37] Stranger Nightfire: I have on occasion seen people I knew were dead log into SL
[2021/08/19 12:37] Valibrarian Gregg: yes Katsii- I would be interested as we want to have info about this in our CVL Information Exhibition!
[2021/08/19 12:37] Dae Miami: here is the thing. when you pass away don’t you want to let people on sl know?
[2021/08/19 12:37] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Stranger !!!!!!!
[2021/08/19 12:37] Stranger Nightfire: of course it was some friend or relative tying up lose ends
[2021/08/19 12:37] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Dae yes, it was that I was thinking about in saying that I would want a SL friend to be the one dealing with things in SL
[2021/08/19 12:38] Valibrarian Gregg: fascinating topic…and an SL memorial is just as real as an rl one- don’t you think?
[2021/08/19 12:38] Suemoon Magic: We have to bring my friend’s avatar in sometimes because he owns all the buildings on our sim but we usually try to make sure she isn’t there when we do.
[2021/08/19 12:38] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes…it did a lot of us at BB a world of good when William Beauclerc died
[2021/08/19 12:38] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): but it was more than just letting people know, Dae.. think of when the creator of Chilbo passed … it was an immense project that people stressed over the access to.. to keep it up to date. Legacy accounts need to be standardized, and regulated
[2021/08/19 12:38] Catseye (katsii.tennen): to get together and share stories and memories
[2021/08/19 12:39] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): if we want a Legacy account, LL should allow us to stipulate that in our membership
[2021/08/19 12:39] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes
[2021/08/19 12:39] Valibrarian Gregg: perhaps companies will move toward that Shiloh…so much tech happened quickly before we realized the archival issues
[2021/08/19 12:39] Catseye (katsii.tennen): they’ll probably figure out a way to charge an arm and a leg for it
[2021/08/19 12:40] Suemoon Magic: lol, yes
[2021/08/19 12:40] Dae Miami: what do you think vws will be like in 10, 20, 50 years?
[2021/08/19 12:40] Dae Miami: will avatars be holographic
[2021/08/19 12:40] Sheila Yoshikawa: It would be nice to have a virtual Oxfam (shorthand for charity shop) that you could donate your virtual goods too when you die – so newbie avatars could get some nice free clothes and goods ;-))
[2021/08/19 12:40] Valibrarian Gregg: hah! yes it may be a business…but perhaps competition will help keep the cost manageable
[2021/08/19 12:41] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Catseye lol yes these services will arrive if there’s money in it
[2021/08/19 12:41] Valibrarian Gregg: Of course- SL is proprietary we all know!
[2021/08/19 12:41] Catseye (katsii.tennen): that would be so cool Sheila
[2021/08/19 12:41] Suemoon Magic: Did anyone see on the news this morning that Face book is making Face Book VR?
[2021/08/19 12:41] Dae Miami: will we see current SL sims as works of art to be treasured like traditional art works, or software that just needs to be discarded and replaced with a new version?
[2021/08/19 12:41] Suemoon Magic: They let folks make memorials of relatives FB pages
[2021/08/19 12:41] Catseye (katsii.tennen): they want the world and they want it NOW
[2021/08/19 12:41] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): well , the problem, Sheila.. is Transfer rights are not part of what we purchase
[2021/08/19 12:42] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): Modify, Copy, yes …
[2021/08/19 12:42] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Suemoon Zuckerberg said something a couple of weeks back – as if it was a completely new thing!!!!
[2021/08/19 12:42] Valibrarian Gregg: yes- and FB is using the term “metaverse” but I hate that they make it all happen thru FB! they can’t own the metaverse NO
[2021/08/19 12:42] Dae Miami: @Suemoon no what did FB say. I am not surprised since they own oculus
[2021/08/19 12:42] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes…didn’t even mention SL
[2021/08/19 12:42] Valibrarian Gregg: I have an Oculus Rift S and you cannot invite friend without going thru FB! horrible
[2021/08/19 12:42] Catseye (katsii.tennen): and their idea of metaverse does not involve co=creating
[2021/08/19 12:42] Marly (marly.milena): Back to Alice????
[2021/08/19 12:42] Suemoon Magic: Three news reporters had their avatars on TV – with headsets
[2021/08/19 12:42] Catseye (katsii.tennen): or digital citizenship..or any of those freakish ideas ..lol
[2021/08/19 12:43] Dae Miami: I am in a VR creation class with unity and the big issue in ed is student fb accounts
[2021/08/19 12:43] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes…this is a whole nother topic
[2021/08/19 12:43] Suemoon Magic: ㋡ sorry
[2021/08/19 12:43] Sheila Yoshikawa: shouts: OK people do you want to go to another location or are we too settled chatting here?
[2021/08/19 12:44] Valibrarian Gregg: Let’s move on! where to Sheila?
[2021/08/19 12:44] Marly (marly.milena): Can we mine the ideas re the Tea Party?
[2021/08/19 12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think the museum
[2021/08/19 12:44] Valibrarian Gregg: ok to the museum!!
[2021/08/19 12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Funny%20Island/155/78/23
[2021/08/19 12:44] Suemoon Magic: How is Alice able to maintain this sim? did she have passwords?
[2021/08/19 12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: The museum
[2021/08/19 12:45] Sheila Yoshikawa: let’s resume the chat there
[2021/08/19 12:45] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marly good idea
[2021/08/19 12:45] Sheila Yoshikawa: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Funny%20Island/155/78/23

We teleport to the Museum in Wonderland

[2021/08/19 12:46] SPELL %3A A key to Wonderland [book]: whispers: This little museum displays photographs of Alice Liddell, the child for whom Charles Dodgson (alias Lewis Carroll) created the Wonderland adventures. Photographs of Alice and her siblings are from Charles Dodgson himself.
[2021/08/19 12:46] Valibrarian Gregg: Apparently there was quite a controversy surrounding Alice!
[2021/08/19 12:46] PI (pi.illios): Yes
[2021/08/19 12:46] Sheila Yoshikawa: well I think it’s a recent controversy
[2021/08/19 12:46] Suemoon Magic: Oh?
[2021/08/19 12:46] Valibrarian Gregg: https://historycollection.com/10-controversial-facts-behind-the-real-alice-in-wonderland/
[2021/08/19 12:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: to do with people’s concerns about pictures of children
[2021/08/19 12:47] PI (pi.illios): I don’t want to think much about it It made me sad
[2021/08/19 12:47] Suemoon Magic: How did the avatar Alice manage to pay for this sim? Did she have passwords?
[2021/08/19 12:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: I haven’t investigated it deeply
[2021/08/19 12:47] Valibrarian Gregg: I know! it is creepy
[2021/08/19 12:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: hmmm
[2021/08/19 12:48] Valibrarian Gregg: I have not really investigated it either
[2021/08/19 12:48] Valibrarian Gregg: and I think it is important to separate “art” from “the artist”
[2021/08/19 12:48] Catseye (katsii.tennen): these kids do not look happy
[2021/08/19 12:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: but even when I was young, photos of small unclothed girls weren’t seen as inappropriate
[2021/08/19 12:48] Valibrarian Gregg: of course, exploitation should never become acceptable
[2021/08/19 12:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: I’m playing a Carroll advocate here
[2021/08/19 12:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: how happy does anyone look in a Victorian photo
[2021/08/19 12:49] Sheila Yoshikawa: they had to keep still with the long exposure
[2021/08/19 12:49] Valibrarian Gregg: true! serious faces…hard to hold that smile long enough for the photo lol
[2021/08/19 12:49] Catseye (katsii.tennen): hmm
[2021/08/19 12:49] Catseye (katsii.tennen): it’s the eyes i’m looking at
[2021/08/19 12:49] Sheila Yoshikawa: can we always be imposing our current moral view on the past?
[2021/08/19 12:49] Valibrarian Gregg: The controversy reminded me of Michael Jackson… I mean you can enjoy his music without digging into his personal life
[2021/08/19 12:49] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i will always love the book
[2021/08/19 12:50] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i just don’t have to venerate the author
[2021/08/19 12:50] Valibrarian Gregg: but when the personal life is “part of the art” (as Alice must be) there is a weird overlap
[2021/08/19 12:50] Sheila Yoshikawa: what is it about the eyes @Catseye?
[2021/08/19 12:50] Catseye (katsii.tennen): like Tolstoy….a bastard if there ever was one…but I’ll always love War and Peace
[2021/08/19 12:50] Catseye (katsii.tennen): some of the kids eyes look scared or angry
[2021/08/19 12:50] Marly (marly.milena): During WW II my parents loved the pianist, Gieseking, who was a Debussy expert, but when they found out he was a Nazi sympathizer, they stopped listening to him
[2021/08/19 12:50] Sheila Yoshikawa: actually I think there is a photo of me that my dad took that might have a similar look
[2021/08/19 12:50] Valibrarian Gregg: good example Marly!
[2021/08/19 12:51] Catseye (katsii.tennen): it depends …if i have to give money to someone whose morality I totally disagree with..I won’t
[2021/08/19 12:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: conventions for photos are different now surely – we demand that people pretend to look natural
[2021/08/19 12:51] Dae Miami: I have to get ready for dinner…nice seeing you all
[2021/08/19 12:51] Valibrarian Gregg: I do think this museum really leads to critical thinking….and the sim has educational value. agree?
[2021/08/19 12:51] Catseye (katsii.tennen): if i can access the art without supporting something I want nothing to do with..then fine
[2021/08/19 12:51] Valibrarian Gregg: bye Dae!!
[2021/08/19 12:51] Suemoon Magic: Bye Dae
[2021/08/19 12:51] Dae Miami: bye
[2021/08/19 12:51] Catseye (katsii.tennen): absolutely
[2021/08/19 12:52] Suemoon Magic: yes
[2021/08/19 12:52] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): yes… that is like Wagner, too
[2021/08/19 12:53] Valibrarian Gregg: hhmm- there is a difference between denying ugly things and exploiting them…for example the museum about the Oklahoma City bombing is extremely tasteful and puts emphasis on the the heros not the bombers
[2021/08/19 12:53] Catseye (katsii.tennen): many artists and musicians have huge egos…i give them a lot of space around that…but if they are actually harming others…different ballgame
[2021/08/19 12:53] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): Wagner was strongly anti semitic.. but a brilliant composer … how do we treat his musical works ..
[2021/08/19 12:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: so thanks @Val – that was a topic I wanted to raise – what is good advice in presenting controversial topics?
[2021/08/19 12:53] Valibrarian Gregg: That museum is beautiful as well as sad
[2021/08/19 12:54] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Catseye, setting boundaries
[2021/08/19 12:54] Catseye (katsii.tennen): that it not hide the negative
[2021/08/19 12:54] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): I think SL can and should be able to expose controversial topics
[2021/08/19 12:54] Marly (marly.milena): and the anti-Semite, T S Eliot
[2021/08/19 12:54] Catseye (katsii.tennen): that it present all the aspects to be thought about
[2021/08/19 12:54] Valibrarian Gregg: I think as a librarian- I was trained to seek resources that are true and accurate yet have aesthetic appeal (not denying the sadness of the world but not exploiting it)
[2021/08/19 12:54] Stranger Nightfire: I think that after many decades it was finally allowed for an orchestra to play Wagner in Israel
[2021/08/19 12:54] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Shiloh lol I can hear that my husband’s listening to Siegfried in the next room
[2021/08/19 12:55] Valibrarian Gregg: and to have room for all perspectives
[2021/08/19 12:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Catseye very good points
[2021/08/19 12:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: can we also enable the visitors to participate – to contribute?
[2021/08/19 12:55] Shiloh e. (shiloh.emmons): I would think as educators that you cannot sugar coat anything… and yes… complex perspectives can and should be presented ..
[2021/08/19 12:56] Valibrarian Gregg: We can just sweep things under the rug but no need to glorify them either! always a balancing act
[2021/08/19 12:56] Sheila Yoshikawa: has anyone here curated an exhibit that had this controversy/complexity?
[2021/08/19 12:57] Marly (marly.milena): Once I know that artists have immoral positions or behave unethically, I can’t really enjoy their productions the same way
[2021/08/19 12:57] Valibrarian Gregg: Pi- I think we had a bit of controversy at our CVL Summer Fair – maybe not as controversial as this! but new perspectives
[2021/08/19 12:57] Catseye (katsii.tennen): I have a musician friend …I was close to him, I thought, but he didn’t know I was Jewish and one night he launched into an anti semitic diatribe…thinking I would agree…he was african-american and it shocked me. And a brilliant musician and a friend. I asked him what he thought about Schwerner and Goodman..and I asked him where my cut was of all this money supposed to be flowing to me and mine….and I still admire his music and still talk to him..but I let him know where I stood. …good question whether I would buy a ticket to his concert….don’t know…
[2021/08/19 12:57] Sheila Yoshikawa: the current one @Val?
[2021/08/19 12:57] PI (pi.illios): Yes Val We exposed a few things there
[2021/08/19 12:58] Valibrarian Gregg: yes Sheila- some might find the gender exhibit rather controversial (I learned a few things myself)
[2021/08/19 12:59] Valibrarian Gregg: The CVL Summer fair is extended! new name: CVL Information Exhibition will be at the VWMOOC21
[2021/08/19 12:59] Catseye (katsii.tennen): one cannot hide the bad that often shows up with the good. ..the whole idea of critical thinking is that we deal with what is uncomfortable, find out what is unacceptable…
[2021/08/19 12:59] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Catseye thank you for that example – I think often we don’t realise how people around us are shielding different views depending on what they think your views are, to keep the flow of life going
[2021/08/19 12:59] PI (pi.illios): People can agree or disagree We can do an activity with that
[2021/08/19 12:59] Valibrarian Gregg: sooo true @Kats
[2021/08/19 12:59] Valibrarian Gregg: we should be able to be civil in disagreement and not lose the art of a good debate either
[2021/08/19 12:59] Valibrarian Gregg: and I fear some people are losing it!
[2021/08/19 12:59] Marly (marly.milena): I could tell you stories about conservative transpersons who woke up when they realized that the fear and hatred directed at them, they were engendering with gays and other categories of humanity
[2021/08/19 12:59] PI (pi.illios): nods
[2021/08/19 13:00] Valibrarian Gregg: gosh can you believe the cuckoo is telling us the hour is up! great conversation
[2021/08/19 13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: nods @Marly
[2021/08/19 13:00] Catseye (katsii.tennen): lots of people are losing it…the relative anonymity and safety of acting like an AH** on the internet has opened a floodgate of bad behavior
[2021/08/19 13:00] Stranger Nightfire: don’t look too hard at your heros, even Gandhi was an abusive husband and father
[2021/08/19 13:00] Catseye (katsii.tennen): oops..i have to go
[2021/08/19 13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: One last question
[2021/08/19 13:00] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes
[2021/08/19 13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: has it been a good or bad experience discussing our usual things but in a different venue?
[2021/08/19 13:00] Suemoon Magic: Bye Cats
[2021/08/19 13:00] Valibrarian Gregg: wow Stranger good point….
[2021/08/19 13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: I wouldn’t want to do it all the time, but should we do it a bit more?
[2021/08/19 13:01] Suemoon Magic: I like this venue
[2021/08/19 13:01] Catseye (katsii.tennen): yes
[2021/08/19 13:01] Catseye (katsii.tennen): i’m off
[2021/08/19 13:01] Valibrarian Gregg: @Sheila I loved coming here- brought out new ideas and a good exploration
[2021/08/19 13:01] Valibrarian Gregg: even tho I had been before
[2021/08/19 13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Bye everyone
[2021/08/19 13:01] Catseye (katsii.tennen): thanks for this wonderful presentation Sheila
[2021/08/19 13:01] Valibrarian Gregg: bye Kats
[2021/08/19 13:01] Catseye (katsii.tennen): made me really think
[2021/08/19 13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: discussion at VWER HQ next week
[2021/08/19 13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks everyone!
[2021/08/19 13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Bye!
[2021/08/19 13:01] Valibrarian Gregg: see you then! have a good weekend all
[2021/08/19 13:01] Suemoon Magic: Bye everyone
[2021/08/19 13:02] Valibrarian Gregg: bye
[2021/08/19 13:02] PI (pi.illios): Be safe and healthy

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