Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: July 12 2018
Topic: “Open Forum”
Lightly edited for typos by Sheila Yoshikawa; photo by Sheila Yoshikawa
[12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. 8pm In UK, 3pm EST. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds.
[12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at https://vwer.info/
[12:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: If you look there you will see recent transcripts from the past few months, and also transcripts from 2008!
[12:05] Sheila Yoshikawa: I am transferring the 2008 transcripts across at the moment from an old wikispaces site
[12:05] Sheila Yoshikawa: Please join the VWER group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, or Google+ please join our group there. Our group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/, and our Google+ community at https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/101630374387475211030
[12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: I am moderating today. The topic for this week’s meeting will be: “Open Forum”
Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual we will be in text chat for the whole session.
[12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: Should be a quick process!
[12:06] Sheila Yoshikawa: So I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK
[12:06] ThinkererSelby Evans: Selby Evans, Blogger, Visit Stonehenge in your browser: Virtual field trip https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2018/07/2018-ww-edu-visit-stonehenge-in-your.html
[12:06] Marly: Niela Miller, M.S. Education/Communications- Gestalt therapist, composer, musician, artist, actor, educator, trainer, coach, educational designer, facilitator. In SL since 2007. Founder: Octagon:Creative Exploration/ Facilitator: Adventures in Lifelong Learning, Whole Brain Health. See http://www.peoplesystemspotential.com for more.
[12:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: Stonehenge! interesting Selby
[12:08] ThinkererSelby Evans: yes — In the student’s browser
[12:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: I shall have to follow that up
[12:08] Darkejade Tempest: hi folks 🙂
[12:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: I will just start the session with a moan about Linden Labs billing department
[12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi Darke
[12:09] Darkejade Tempest: hi 🙂
[12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: I just spent 2 weeks trying to get Linden Lab to invoice us in advance for our educational island, I mean ahead of schedule
[12:09] Marly: I was appalled that I had to pay $4 to sell/transfer $37 !
[12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: we have “end of year” money
[12:09] Darkejade Tempest: are you turning lindens into rl currency ?
[12:09] Sheila Yoshikawa: Well, we were trying to get them to bill us for nearly $3000 US
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: and you think they would want to
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: but
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: their billing department phone number doesn’t work
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: they do not respond to emails
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: they did nothing about the filed ticket for nearly 2 weeks
[12:10] ThinkererSelby Evans: I find Kitely much easier to work with
[12:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: it is mad
[12:11] Sheila Yoshikawa: we were offering them 2 yrs sub in advance and it took them 2 weeks to get their act together, with no feedback
[12:11] Sheila Yoshikawa: what kind of business operation IS that
[12:12] ThinkererSelby Evans: I think it is a going-out-of-business operation
[12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: it does make me depressed about the future if their billing dept is as inefficient as it was 11 years ago when we first got the island
[12:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: rant over, sort of, but I do find it worrying
[12:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: exactly Selby
[12:14] Marly: Maybe we can ask one of our Linden members to intercede in these impossible situations.
[12:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: In 2007 I got the island delivered after 6 weeks of trying by emailing Claudia Linden, this time I feel the fact that I put a short rant on Ebbe Altberg’s twitter last night may not be unconnected to the fact we’re finally billed
[12:14] ThinkererSelby Evans: I gave up worrying about LL years ago — my main operations are OpenSim and web-worlds
[12:15] Marly: Let me know when you are ready to change the subject! LOL
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes Selby, but I’m sort of still addicted to life here, also I have a PhD student should be starting in September investigating why people leave SL
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: so I want a presence still in SL ;-))
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: for her to be based on
[12:15] Marly: Me 2
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Marly am ready to change the subject
[12:15] Marly: Hahaha
[12:15] Sheila Yoshikawa: so anyone else want to air a question, topic, issue
[12:16] Marly: Here’s one question that interests me:
[12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: to do with education and virtual worlds?
[12:16] ThinkererSelby Evans: reasonable, Sheila. I will be glad to talk with her
[12:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks Selby!
[12:16] Marly: How do your personal values get applied to your teaching?
[12:17] Sheila Yoshikawa: Interesting!
[12:17] Marly: Do you have to grin and bear it in your institutions (ie what are the discrepancies?)
[12:17] Sheila Yoshikawa: Not all of us here have institutions to answer to?
[12:17] Marly: Are the choices you are making aligned with your passions and interests?
[12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: So I do, as I’m still employed full time by my university
[12:18] Marly: Did you see the Fred Rogers documentary yet? Wonderful!
[12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: No, which documentary is that
[12:18] ThinkererSelby Evans: I left my institution early to go into full-time consulting
[12:18] Suemoon Magic: I haven’t seen it yet but I hope to
[12:18] Marly: Do you know who Fred Rogers was, Sheila?
[12:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: No
[12:19] ThinkererSelby Evans: Major milestone in web-worlds Importing OAR files from OpenSim
to Web Worlds: Convoar
Software to convert Opensim OAR files to use in web-worlds. Github link offered along with a link to a collection of converted glTF files.
[12:19] Sheila Yoshikawa: might as well be honest
[12:19] ThinkererSelby Evans: What this means
The large body of existing OAR files is available for use in web-worlds.
Zadaroo Public Domain OpenSim Resources.
OARs – OutWorldz
OpenSim OAR files (search)
Be sure to check the license before you use an OAR file
Building for web-worlds can use the powerful building support of OpenSim
Experienced builders in OpenSim may build for web-worlds on commission.
[12:20] Sheila Yoshikawa: And the answer to your question Marly is “partly”
[12:20] Marly: He had a terrific unique early TV program geared toward children and helping them feel great for being just the way they were. Very imaginative, used puppets and varied characters including a black policeman who sang and was gentle
[12:20] Suemoon Magic: He was a Presbyterian Minister
[12:21] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thank you
[12:21] ThinkererSelby Evans: Fred McFeely Rogers (March 20, 1928 – February 27, 2003) was an American television personality, musician, puppeteer, writer, producer, and Presbyterian minister. He was known as the creator, music composer, and host of the educational preschool television series Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood (1968–2001). The show featured Rogers’s kind, neighborly, avuncular persona, which nurtured his connection to the audience.
Trained and ordained as a minister, Rogers was displeased with the way television addressed children at the time; he began to write and perform local Pittsburgh-area shows for youth. In 1968, Eastern Educational Television Network began nationwide distribution of Rogers’s new show on WQED. Over the course of three decades, Rogers became a television icon of children’s entertainment and education.
[12:21] Marly: Yes, and his ministry was this program. He really listened to the children.
[12:21] ThinkererSelby Evans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers
[12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: So you feel he was someone whose teaching choices WERE aligned with his passions
[12:22] Marly: So he is an example of someone who lived his values as an educator and was before his time!
[12:22] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks Selby
[12:23] Adrienne: Greetings! =)
[12:23] Sheila Yoshikawa: I feel that what I do as a teacher is a compromise, not just with my values, but with the university’s professed values
[12:23] Suemoon Magic: Great shoes Adrienne ㋡
[12:23] Adrienne: lol TY
[12:23] Sheila Yoshikawa: In that university education has become so marketised
[12:24] Marly: For me, fostering creativity and collaboration are prime values and I apply them in everything I do here (and out there as well)
[12:24] Sheila Yoshikawa: and although it isn’t as bad at Sheffield Uni as at some others, still the pressures are ratcheted up
[12:24] Sheila Yoshikawa: it is mainly in terms of being expected to do things more efficiently all the time
[12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: to spend less time with students, when they need MORE time with educators to help them flourish
[12:25] Sheila Yoshikawa: depressing
[12:25] Suemoon Magic: Marly, I think your sound is on
[12:25] ThinkererSelby Evans: Deans expect other people to be more efficient
[12:26] Marly: Early in my career, I taught in a pubic high school. I managed to cover the stated curriculum but tried to do it in the most engaging, imaginative ways I could
[12:26] Sheila Yoshikawa: and creativity in research also gets more and more constrained by the government focus on funding things that contribute to industrial strategy, economic development etc
[12:26] Marly: And that, Sheila, is in the face of research which says that kids who do music and art do better in science and math!
[12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: It affects schools too, with an emphasis on covering the national curriculum (there is a curriculum which all schools in England have to follow, and they get inspected, and there are league tables etc.)
[12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: that does not allow teachers and learners creativity, and does not prepare them so well for work or university
[12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marly yes
[12:27] Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry, I am in rant mode tonight!
[12:27] Suemoon Magic: They teach “the test” in schools here too
[12:28] Marly: I love Antioch College’s blended curriculum. No more categorical subject matter
[12:28] Marly: (my alma mater)
[12:28] Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes, I know it is not just in the UK. It has depressing here in that there is some regression back towards a “teacher at the front” mode of delivery in school (K12)
[12:29] Sheila Yoshikawa: Also Finland given as an example of a broader curriculum
[12:29] Suemoon Magic: (by here I meant the US) ㋡
[12:29] Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
[12:29] Marly: https://www.antiochcollege.edu/news/archive/new-curriculum-and-calendar-approved
[12:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: and hello Fuzz
[12:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: fascinating @Marly
[12:30] Marly: Sheila, when teachers attempt to influence the direction of the curriculum, does anyone listen over there?
[12:31] Sheila Yoshikawa: I know that kind of initiative involves a lot of ongoing work by the teachers to facilitate the process
[12:31] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes and no @Marly
[12:31] Marly: At least, here or in virtual worlds in general, we can teach however we want!
[12:31] Marly: virtual
[12:31] Sheila Yoshikawa: There is a depressing tendency for politicians to say that teachers are “biased” (i.e. they know a lot about the subject!)
[12:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes and say compared to a school (under 18s) I have more scope at a university to teach what/how I want, so my Information Literacy class can reflect my and my colleagues ‘ ideas about inquiry based learning, and the importance of looking at information in different contexts, and reflecting on your own ideas
[12:33] Wuzan Raccoon: Hello
[12:33] Marly: selby, were you in a restrictive ed environment or a more progressive one?
[12:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi Wuzan
[12:34] Sheila Yoshikawa: and wb Darkejade
[12:34] Sheila Yoshikawa: We are just discussing whether people can base their teaching on their own passions and values, or are they more constricted by their institution
[12:35] ThinkererSelby Evans: I was in a university – much less restrictive – I could run my classes as I pleased — Taught research design by small group format
[12:36] Marly: Fortuitous!
[12:36] ThinkererSelby Evans: But most of the faculty just lectured
[12:37] Sheila Yoshikawa: I am currently starting Stefan Collini’s new book “Speaking of universities”, he has written a lot about “what are universities for” saying that they should not just be pseudo-businesses
[12:37] Marly: So many teachers are heavily influenced by their conditioning in their own education upbringing
[12:37] Sheila Yoshikawa: and also pressures of large classes
[12:38] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Selby yes for research design, which is not simple, small group teaching so much more effective
[12:39] Sheila Yoshikawa: BTW if anyone has another topic or question, please go ahead#
[12:39] Marly: I find that, here, people are often scared to try out new forms of learning. It takes a lot of patience and experimentation to find ways to help people feel safe re trying out new stuff
[12:41] ThinkererSelby Evans: I broke a class of 30 into groups of about 6 ea. and gave each group a research question and a design to answer it– the groups had to evaluate the design and recommend improvements
[12:41] Sheila Yoshikawa: sounds an excellent exercise
[12:42] Marly: I did something similar with large classes, broke them up into small groups, had them create stories, little plays and then present to larger group.
[12:42] Sheila Yoshikawa: We had about 250 students in our Masters-level research methods class this year
[12:43] ThinkererSelby Evans: A lot more realistic than listening to a lecture — What job description calls for sitting in a classroom and listening to a lecture.
[12:43] Sheila Yoshikawa: They would certainly learn more if they were broken into smaller cohorts and focused on activities
[12:43] Sheila Yoshikawa: but this is a class traditionally mostly taught by lectures and it would take extra staff resources to do it better….
[12:43] Sheila Yoshikawa: so I am drifting away from virtual worlds
[12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: in terms of topic
[12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: a benefit here has been carrying out teaching in smaller groups
[12:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: BTW earlier on Selby said something about OARs from opensim?
[12:45] Marly: @Sheila, is there one step you could take which would enhance the learning experience for your students?
[12:45] Sheila Yoshikawa: is that a new development Selby?
[12:46] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marly I do in other classes, I do a lot of interaction, reflection activities etc., but the point comes where you have to protect yourself, and I have decided I will not make it a mission for that particular class
[12:46] ThinkererSelby Evans: Sheila — yes major integration step — can duplicate opensim worlds in web-worlds
[12:46] Sheila Yoshikawa: so that was not feasible before?
[12:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: (sorry I think you just said it wasn’t)
[12:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: actually that does sound quite exciting
[12:47] ThinkererSelby Evans: right sheila — or not easy — the improvement is in the form of converter software
[12:50] Sheila Yoshikawa: I was thinking of the work Shailey had done in – I think an opensim world? Where they used very detailed geographic data (from the UK ordnance survey maps)
[12:50] Sheila Yoshikawa: so that kind of work could be shared more easily
[12:50] ThinkererSelby Evans: yes — she just needs to make an OAR
[12:51] Marly: Clarify the difference between an open sim world and a web world (I am guessing the latter is the kind you have developed which can be accessed through the browser and the OSW needs to be accessed through a viewer, is that right?)
[12:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: In the notecard in the box I highlighted 2 recent articles that just caught my eye
[12:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: 1) VR and Mixed Reality are catching the news. e.g. https://www.chronicle.com/article/Not-Just-for-Video-Games-/243729?cid=cp170 and https://er.educause.edu/blogs/2018/6/using-immersive-reality-to-enhance-experiential-learning-the-unforgettable-experience?
Is there any way to insert our own experience of virtual worlds into this narrative?
[12:51] ThinkererSelby Evans: Right, Marly
[12:51] ThinkererSelby Evans: Nothing to download — no registration
[12:52] ThinkererSelby Evans: It is going to a web page
[12:52] Marly: Selby, do you think that web worlds will eventually have all the same capability as, for instance, Firestorm?
[12:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: you mean so that a webworld could deliver a similar immersive experience, and options fro creayion etc.
[12:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: creation etc.?
[12:53] ThinkererSelby Evans: Marly — Probably not all in the same sim — the browser limits memory
[12:54] Marly: If SL shut down, could we recreate the same experiences?
[12:54] ThinkererSelby Evans: Yes we could — but would need to learn new scripting methods
[12:55] Marly: Or maybe learn what Tooya (Thuja Hines) does….scriptless objects
[12:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: what kind of objects, Marly?
[12:55] ThinkererSelby Evans: Both web-worlds I am working with are developing aids to make building and scripting easier
[12:56] Marly: All sorts, she just gave a class in making a moving ceiling fan without scripts
[12:57] Sheila Yoshikawa: seems like Perpetual Motion!
[12:57] ThinkererSelby Evans: Objects in web-worlds can be partly scripted — you just add the parameters
[12:58] Marly: I dunno….but, Selby, it might be interesting to talk with her. She seems to have a whole way of dealing with the physics of different spaces. She calls her work Simply Impossible! 🙂
[12:58] Darkejade Tempest: is there a limit with scriptless objects or is physics that move things like the fan?
[12:59] Sheila Yoshikawa: the impossible bit was why I was thinking of the impossible goal in the physical world of perpectual motion
[12:59] Darkejade Tempest: I’ve seen some of her stuff, I believe, its pretty cool . a fan, a continuous moving ball in a spiral I think.. it was awhile ago.
[12:59] Sheila Yoshikawa: perpectual
[12:59] ThinkererSelby Evans: Some scripts become part of the object when executed. you can then remove the script from the contents. — it is not magic
[12:59] Marly: Since my work with objects is purely symbolic and not an attempt to make things that do things, I can’t say
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: and apologies for my inability to type “perpetual”
[13:00] Marly: It’s all perceptual dahling….
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: actually, selby that does SEEM rather like magic!
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
[13:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: btw we have reached 1pm
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: I just had to announce
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: next week we will revisit a transcript from 2008
[13:01] Marly: Fun conversation today! Thanks all
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: https://vwer.info/2008/07/22/2008-07-22-discussion-on-library-services-in-second-life/
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: July 2008
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: I will send out the notices
[13:01] Darkejade Tempest: thanks all and have a great day/night !
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: it was on libraries in SL and we will discuss what has changed and what has not, in 10 years
[13:01] ThinkererSelby Evans: bye all
[13:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks to you!
[13:02] Suemoon Magic: Bye y’all ㋡
[13:02] Darkejade Tempest: sim crossing are evil still … sometimes .. 🙂
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: bye!
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
[13:02] Marly: That’s way in the future….speaking of which, has anyone read Kim…Robinson’s book, SHAMAN? He imagines how the first wave of humans lived, loved, communicated. Fascinating!
[13:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: no I haven’t
[13:03] Darkejade Tempest: I haven’t read that either Marly
[13:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: will make a note!
[13:03] Darkejade Tempest: yet 🙂
[13:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: bye for now then
[13:03] Marly: Let me know if you read it, would love to talk with someone about it!